Another Amazing Conversation with JD Walt

Join us as we revisit inspiring insights with JD Walt, a renowned Bible teacher and pastor, who shares his journey of faith, the importance of personal connection with Jesus, and practical wisdom for pastors and church leaders. Discover how living in the Spirit transforms ministry and life.

Seedbed - Seedbed

Get JD's new book: Exodus

Check out The Wake Up Call

Follow us on Insta @churchtalkproject. www.churchtalkproject.com

Transcript

Jason Allison (00:00)
Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the Church Talk podcast with Rob and Jason. We are excited to share a little bit of time with you today. I don't know what you're doing right now. If you're driving or working out or, I don't know, trying to fall asleep late at night, you never know. People listed us for very different reasons, I assume. But yeah, I we definitely don't know it. But either way, we're glad that you took the time to.

JD (00:17)
Thank

Rob Paterson (00:18)
Maybe we're therapeutic and we don't even know it.

Jason Allison (00:25)
Download and listen and we do ask. mean, I usually say this at the end, but man, if you'll take a minute and like and subscribe and then share the podcast, it really helps us. It helps other people hear what's going on and hopefully connects them to some really good resources. And Rob, know, you and I say this a lot, but I mean, we exist to engage, equip and encourage pastors and leaders. And so anytime we can do that, it's a win and it's what we're about.

We love doing it and we love doing it on this podcast, but also just in person when we get to travel around and see people and hang out and do all the fun stuff. we, really appreciate that. Rob, you, you doing okay today, man? I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm feeling just like, you've got a glow about you. That's, that's like, Hey, I think I'm over all my sickness. We're recording this before Easter. So, you know, you're not dead yet to, from all the stuff and activity you're, you're like,

You're glowing. You doing good?

Rob Paterson (01:20)
I'm doing very well. had after, you know, I mean, a weekend, right? So like when you're in ministry, I don't talk to too many pastors who were like, I just sleep like a baby all weekend long. You I sleep like a baby on Sunday night after, you know, the weekend's done. But my mind just gets so engaged with ministry stuff in the weekend, Saturday night into Sunday, you know? mean, I can be as ready as ready can be. And my mind is still kind of thinking, you know,

nonstop so it wakes me up through the night. It's hard to fall asleep. you know, I mean, yeah, I'm, I feel well rested. I got endless stories of God just doing really cool things in people's lives. I could, I can tell you bad stories too, but you know, and we get to talk about resurrection here coming up. know this will drop after Easter, but, yeah, I'm always excited and, everything's popping outside here in the state of Ohio, you know, and

Jason Allison (02:11)
Hmm.

Rob Paterson (02:12)
I even had a buddy text me today because we've had some warmer days and some nice warm rain. And he's like, Hey, we need to start checking your property for blacks, which is like a, one of the early forms of morale mushrooms. So, ⁓ I'm, I think maybe in a couple hours, there's going to be some mushroom searching to begin to occur. ⁓ so yeah, I mean, you know, all of those are very good things and I'm willing to sort of push aside things that.

Jason Allison (02:25)
Mmm.

Nice.

Yeah.

Rob Paterson (02:40)
would rob my joy today.

Jason Allison (02:42)
That's great. Well, I'm I'm excited because we have on today a guest that we've had before and talk about bringing joy every time I interact with our guest today, whether it's reading the books that he's read or that he's written or the, know, in person over the the interwebs like we do, I just always walk away feeling like a better person. I just feel a little more joy. And so, I mean, it is

our honor and privilege to have on for a second time, the one and only JD Walt. JD, welcome back to the Church Talk podcast. ⁓ I'm not sure if that's good or bad, Rob, but you know. well for the.

JD (03:19)
It feels like deja vu.

This is great!

I've got to re-

I hope I have something new to say.

Jason Allison (03:31)
I trust me. I'm not worried about that. Just for those of you that maybe really missed out the first time, I catch you up real quick. JD is the he is and this is on the back of the book that we're going to talk about today. He is a renowned Bible teacher and prolific author. Yeah. And and we talked about this last time that you were the dean of chapel at Asbury Seminary. And then, of course, you're the founder. And I love this. So are in chief at Seedbed and that.

JD (03:56)
So we're gonna see.

Jason Allison (03:58)
organization exists to gather, connect and resource the people of God to sow for the great awakening. And also, and this is what makes me love you even more, you are the pastor of Gillette Methodist Church in Gillette, Arkansas. You are a practitioner as much as you write and produce and all that stuff. You pastor a congregation of people. And I just appreciate that about you. And so, man, welcome. We're glad we can have a little conversation with you today.

Rob Paterson (04:13)
Mmm.

JD (04:24)
Thank you.

Well, I'm honored to be back and I love the podcast and what you all are doing. You're encouraging pastors, you know. I remember when I was dean of chapel at Asbury, this man used to come into my office. He was one of our students. He was in a wheelchair. His whole life was a major struggle, but he was just so brilliant. And he'd roll up into my office.

His name was Sam, Sam Eden. And he would say, who will mend the cobbler's shoes?

He saw himself as my pastor and he was. And that's the thing, you know, we read the text about sheep without a shepherd. But what about all the shepherds without a shepherd? That's what you guys are doing. You're shepherding shepherds. You're mending the cobbler's shoes. And it's often thankless and

Jason Allison (05:03)
Yeah? Aww.

trying.

JD (05:28)
It's always needed. So thanks. Thanks for that.

Rob Paterson (05:31)
Yeah. Yeah. That's great.

Jason Allison (05:34)
Yeah.

Rob Paterson (05:35)
JD is, is Jason was, intro-ing you and giving your bio again. and I loved what he said and I completely agree with that idea that you're not only doing all the other things that you have done and are doing, but that you're also, you know, pastoring a congregation. think that's significant. think a lot of times, you know, and all three of us here, today,

you know, aren't aren't rookies, right? We have some years in our in our rear view mirror. And I think I'll just I mean, I would say in general, but I'll just speak for me. I think, you know, I have thought this thought in my head. And it's probably not a good one. It's probably not a helpful or healthy one. There are times where I've thought to myself, you know, after being a pastor now, like day in and day out in the local church, I've learned some things.

I've experienced some things, many of them the hard way, which I would have been able to learn smarter along the way sometimes. And these things, you know, I want to be able to share with others, which is one of the reasons Jason and I, with, you know, 60 to 70 years of ministry experience just between the two of us started this podcast a number of years ago. But there are moments, and here's the, think, the dysfunctional part sometimes. It's like, hey, you know, if God were to open a door,

maybe I would step into something different where I could help the broader church more. And I, and in my head, I think of that instead of doing sort of this day in and day out, sometimes great thing and sometimes slog, right? With people just in the depths of life, which is really what it's all about. and, so like as somebody, you know, who has a lot of life and a lot of experience, but

who also is continuing to stay in that day-to-day with real people. Talk about sort of the value of both of those happening, not just I gained a whole bunch of experience and then I moved on to something different, but I'm also doing other things, but I'm continuing to stay in that in a real way.

JD (07:33)
Yes, that's good. I to me, even though I've pastored a long way and through different kinds of places and, you know, organizational dynamics, this is the most on the ground thing I've ever done. And it feels like the buy-in, right? It's like table stakes.

It's, I don't know. It, kind of feels like my credibility in a way, that I am just, it's a very small town. Our town's about 500 people and our church is, is very, it's small, but it's super alive. I don't know my dad, you know, my dad every Sunday.

Rob Paterson (08:06)
Mm.

JD (08:23)
He's losing his memory and he's with me in my every, in the wake up call sings with me hymns we sing. He's losing his memory. You know, his dementia is hitting him hard. It's very sad. It's very hard to, to, watch. But every Sunday he'll ask me about five times before we even get to lunch. Well, how many, how many did you have today? He was there. I'm like, like, man, I bet you we had 75 today.

Rob Paterson (08:48)
Hahaha

JD (08:51)
On a good Sunday, on a good Sunday, we'll have a hundred maybe, but that doesn't even matter to me anymore. It's, it's that person and that person and, those children and the kids I get to teach, I teach the high school and the middle school Sunday school every Sunday. That's the highlight of my week. Just sitting up there and mixing it up with these kids and then

You know, yesterday we probably had about four little kids for the children's sermon and another highlight. I don't know, it's, it is, it's not, it's, it's not a dying church. It's alive. I mean, I think there's no such thing as a dead church. I think that's the ultimate oxymoron. You may have a dead something, but it's not a church. You can call it a dead church.

Rob Paterson (09:29)
Yeah.

Mm hmm.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, Jason, before we get on to like, you know, talking about all the important stuff, I just think, you know, man, JD, I love this. I love like just what you shared with us, because I know this, I know, we have pastors, we have church leaders listening to this podcast, right now, who feel like, like, is my life even matter? Is it even counting?

Jason Allison (09:40)
Yeah.

Rob Paterson (10:03)
You know, like what I do is so small. know I helped this person and I poured into that family and I tried to make a difference here and they're discouraged because they're like, man, if I, if I was a, if I had my bio had renowned Bible teacher and prolific author, man, I'd probably feel a lot better about myself, especially on Monday mornings. And I just love that on a Monday you're, you're saying these words like, Hey, I got some of those accolades by my name.

But the highlight of my week is teaching those four kids or hanging out with those high schoolers in a Sunday school class and just sort of doing the life thing, man. That is amazing.

JD (10:34)
Yes.

I don't know, who, where in the world did I become a renowned Bible teacher? I'm like, who, what marketing department came up with that? I'm like, do they know me?

Rob Paterson (10:51)
I think it

was your marketing department. think that's the...

JD (10:53)
You

Jason Allison (10:55)
I think I'm pretty sure it was Zondervan. We'll just...

JD (10:58)
Do they know me?

You know what I often tell people? I'm like, I'm not a Bible scholar.

I'm a Bible lover, that's what I could say. That's my qualification. I've read the Bible lot and I've, anyhow, yeah, this little church, it's changing me. The further I get in this, I think, you know, we all kind of probably start in it with some grandeur and some, you know, grandiosity and...

Rob Paterson (11:05)
Mm. Mm.

Jason Allison (11:06)
Yes,

yeah.

JD (11:25)
And, you know, we all see big churches and probably been a part of them and nothing against them, but.

I just, it gets smaller and smaller for me. I just, you know what, what I notice about Jesus is that he's glad to stand in front of a crowd, but he's never talking to that crowd. He's talking to a person, always. And when you look at Jesus, it's always a person. It's a woman.

Jason Allison (11:46)
Yeah. Yeah.

JD (11:53)
by a well, it's a man in a tree, it's a blind man by the side of the road, it's a woman caught in adultery, it's a fisherman, it's a leper. He is always dealing with a single, he gets in a boat, goes across a lake to one man possessed with 5,000 evil spirits. It's remarkable and I'm like, how often do I look past?

the person. Because I want a crowd. You've often heard, and we've all seen and maybe we've been at times, you know, of that preacher, right? He loves a crowd, but he doesn't like people.

Rob Paterson (12:38)
Mm.

JD (12:39)
I don't want to be that guy. But that's kind of fashioned, in fact, my whole understanding of awakening. I think I used to be a sort of revivalistic, maybe a little bit, and I'm just like, no, no, uh-uh. And here's how I define awakening. It's the journey of love from Jesus to a person, through a person, to a person, through a person.

Jason Allison (12:41)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

JD (13:07)
to a person until it's over. And it's just gotten so personal and small and on the ground. in fact, seed, it's a single, and Jesus says, unless a single seed of wheat goes into the ground and dies, it'll never produce a harvest. And so I've just totally left behind the realm of

Jason Allison (13:11)
Yeah.

JD (13:34)
scale and scaling. like, the kingdom won't scale. It'll multiply, but it won't scale. It'll multiply like a seed multiplies, which means it has to go on the long journey into the ground and into the roots and up to the fruits. I don't know. It's just, and I think I've just come to understand that I've wanted a shortcut.

Rob Paterson (13:55)
Mm.

JD (13:56)
And in fact, you look at my prayer life in the past, it's like, it just looks like a lot of reverse delegation. God, would you do this? Would you blow this up? Would you do that thing? And he's like, no, that's your job. And I want to give you the fullness of my presence to act as my agent. And you got one job and that's just get another agent and another agent after that.

And so, awakening has ceased to become this sort of God dumps it out of the sky in response to our earnest prayers. And it's more of a tipping point of people who have awakened to their agency as Holy Spirit-filled ambassadors of Jesus doing it, just like He did it.

Jason Allison (14:46)
That's

you know, I love that because you know, part of my job, part of the questions I get asked is, know, what is a healthy pastor or a healthy church? You know, and I've been I've been reading your your lent book, Jesus asking, and we talked about that before. But, you know, we're we're recording this where we just started Holy Week. So, you know, I'm there. But every single day, you know, it starts out and you start all of your your daily.

JD (15:01)
Thank you.

Jason Allison (15:13)
Stuff with this of that that prayer of consecration, right? And I just like it the way, you know, Ephesians 5 wake up sleeper rise from the dead, you know, and christ will shine on you. I know I love that and

JD (15:23)
Christ will shine on you. That's

consecration, then it's transformation, right? Wake up, consecration, rise up, transformation, shine up, demonstration. That's the whole gospel right there.

Jason Allison (15:28)
Yes. Yep.

Yeah.

And as a pastor realizing that as I embody the gospel, right, as you just described it, then I start that prayer of Jesus, I belong to you. And I've actually started to use this now when I travel and speak at different churches to open my message. do a prayer and I start with just that. I just quoted. don't even pretend I just.

JD (15:48)
Yes.

Amen.

Yes.

Jason Allison (16:02)
friend

of mine says this and I just quote you and say that is our because it's Jesus I belong to you and then I love this I lift up my heart to you. You know I I set my mind on you and then I fix my eyes on you and then I offer my body as a living sacrifice and and that part of that it's every aspect of me now I am handing over to God and when I do that every single day it doesn't matter what I do for a living right.

JD (16:08)
I'm vlogging.

Yeah. Yes.

Rob Paterson (16:31)
Mmm.

JD (16:32)
No, you are you became invincible at the moment Because because I no longer live but Christ lives in me somebody wrote me the other day and they said I don't know if you intended this But have you ever noticed how? Jesus says love the Lord your God with all your heart with all your mind With all your soul like the eyes of the window to the soul with all your strength your body

Jason Allison (16:35)
Yeah

Rob Paterson (16:36)
Nah.

JD (17:01)
I'm like, no, I never did. That's one of those serendipities that that's, that's the greatest commandment.

Rob Paterson (17:04)
Hmm.

Jason Allison (17:05)
Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Rob Paterson (17:10)
don't think

anybody needs anything else here. think, you know what, everybody sign up for Seedbeds, read all JD's books, let's just pray.

JD (17:15)
Come on,

wake up call guys. And that's, that's the thing too. I'm like, I'm just, I don't know. I've been doing this. I've been writing every day for 11 going on 12 years and it has worn me out. I'm like, come on guys, please. Would y'all help, would y'all help this grow because I'm tired and Jesus is not tired.

Which is a sign I'm doing it wrong. If I'm tired and he's not tired, right? He said, my yoke is easy. If you're doing it, if it feels too hard, you're doing it wrong. So I'm still trying to learn how to do it with him, but.

Jason Allison (17:53)
Well,

I've noticed lately, leading up to Lent, at least you had a couple of guests. I call them writers. I don't know what else to call them there, which I know gave you time to work on other stuff and there's. Well, work on, you know, resting. and so I love that you're seeing, you know, that thing that I think every pastor feels like I've got to do it. If I don't do it, it won't be done right, especially pastors in smaller churches.

JD (17:59)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

What do mean? Just take a nap.

Jason Allison (18:17)
You know, church is under 200. If I don't do it, it ain't going to happen. All that stuff. And I'm sure you felt that way for a while, even with the wake up call. Hey, if I don't do it, it's probably not going to be as good. And what if that's the one time someone checks it out for the first time and it's somebody, you know, all those thoughts. I've had them all when, you know, I was planting a church, leading it, all this stuff. And yet there is a point at which we have to say it's not mine, it's God's. And that's where I think a lot of pastors,

JD (18:37)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Jason Allison (18:47)
One of the words they may need to hear today is, hey, it's not your church, it's God's church. And you need to be you. He called you to lead and to shepherd and to care. And he wants you to do it as you to the best of your ability. But ultimately it's his. And I don't know, there's just something freeing about that.

JD (19:07)
Yeah.

Rob Paterson (19:09)
Mmm.

JD (19:10)
It is. And you know, the thing that I feel like I'm just only starting to learn this, and I'm just still barely into it, is I think for the longest time, I was doing my work unto the people for Jesus. And he's like, you're getting it backwards. He said, you've got to learn to do your work unto me.

for people. it's like one day I was serving communion years ago and I said, I was going through the liturgy and I said, this is, and he took the bread and he broke it and he said, this is my body broken for you.

you know, take and eat and do this in remembrance of me. Afterwards, this pastor comes up to me and he's about halfway mad. And he said, son, don't ever say that again. He said, he didn't say this is my body broken for you. He said, this is my body given for you. It was broken unto his father.

Rob Paterson (20:25)
Hmm

JD (20:25)
He was doing this unto His Father for the world. He wasn't doing it for the world unto His Father. And it's a subtle thing. It's a prepositional shift. But it's interesting. You look at the end of Jesus' ministry and He's standing there with Peter. And He didn't say, you love them? He said, do you love me?

Rob Paterson (20:49)
Mm-hmm.

JD (20:50)
feed my sheep, they're mine. Do you love me? And to me, he's like, learn to do this unto me for them. Because it's that dynamic, abiding, bonded attachment that we have to Jesus, through which he just flows capacity that we don't have. And it's

Jason Allison (21:15)
Mm, yeah.

JD (21:18)
It's unbelievable, but I have for many, many years just lived in a more, I call that a transcendent model. I've lived in a functional model, which is like, I'm just going to try to pour myself out and then I'm going to need to go take a break and get filled up and rest again. I wind up resting from work or resting for work. And I think Jesus is trying to teach us what it looks like to actually rest in work.

Rob Paterson (21:27)
Hmm.

Yeah.

JD (21:47)
because we're not the worker, he is. Isn't that something?

Jason Allison (21:50)
Hmm.

Yeah.

Rob Paterson (21:52)
That is awesome. That is awesome. It actually makes me think a couple of weeks ago at exponential, I heard one of the talks was referencing a couple questions that Walter Brueggemann, know, the famous Old Testament scholar who passed away this last summer actually at 92 years old, which is, which is crazy. But he, he pointed out the two questions that God asks in Genesis two and in Genesis three and in Genesis four, right?

JD (22:08)
didn't realize that.

Rob Paterson (22:18)
And the thing we typically ask when everything is broken, whether we've done it ourselves, like, look at what I've done. You know, it's like, what have you done? Right? We sometimes we say this to our kids when they've messed things up. We say this to our friends when they've completely, you know, destroyed their lives with sin or mistakes or whatever. What have you done? You know? And so we kind of think of our heavenly father sometimes when we've messed it up, like that's God's posture.

But in the beginning when Adam and everything's perfect, right? Just like he planned and Adam and Eve choose sin, the only apparent option there is for sin, they pick that one instead. And God comes walking in the garden and he doesn't say, what have you done? He says, where are you, right? He's more concerned with the relationship. then like that's Genesis 3, 9, Genesis 4, 9, exactly one chapter later when

JD (22:59)
Where are you?

Rob Paterson (23:11)
Cain is angry because he kind of gives a half-hearted offering to God where his brother Abel gives up the best to God. so God looks with favor on Abel and not on Cain. And so Cain makes a bad situation worse by killing his brother, right? Like talk about like if there was a time to say, what have you done? You you find a guy standing over his brother with a knife and a bloody pool. Like what have you done, right? No, no, no. God is like, where's your brother? Like for God.

JD (23:32)
Yeah.

I you a brother.

Rob Paterson (23:38)
that connectedness, that relationship with him and with others matters more. And the point that was made, which was so good, like for God, the priority is connection, not perfection. And actually the perfect life comes through that connectedness with God and with others, not in us beating ourselves up and trying harder. ⁓ yes, yeah.

JD (23:56)
through it. Yeah.

Because it's his perfection, it's not ours.

And it's his nature that he shares. you know, this is, we're hard to learn it because we're raised in such an educational model and such a functional performance model. And it seems to work at a certain level, even in the church, but I don't know, you know, I'm...

We led a pastor's retreat recently and I just was remembering hearing a pastor who, one of the great pastors of our time, who went on to have a great, great moral crash. He said, beware of doing the work of God in a way that destroys the work of God in you.

Jason Allison (24:50)
Hmm.

JD (24:51)
And it's

ironic that he did say that, but we all kind of know it and we need a better model. And of course, the model is Jesus himself.

Jason Allison (25:03)
Yeah, but he's a hard model to follow today.

JD (25:07)
Well, but the point, see this is the great epiphany that I'm having every day is that if it is, you know, there's the 10 two-letter words, if it is to be, it is up to me.

the ten real words are if it is to be, it is up to Jesus in me. It's up to He. This is, it's like I'm always trying to get this. I say this and I have this little thing called the Sower's Creed. It's on, I need to start saying it more at the end of the wake up call. But one of the things I say in that little Creed, I say, if Jesus is good news and Jesus is in me,

Then I'm good news. If Jesus is love and Jesus is in me, then I am love. And so my work all of a sudden becomes like, let me just behold Jesus. Let me just get my eyes on him. Let me just get down on the ground in these stories with him and watch. He says, watch how I do it. See how I work. Because the way I did it then, that's how I'm going do it now. I'm going to do greater things than these. I'm going to do them.

Rob Paterson (25:43)
Mmm.

JD (26:08)
And it's learning to abide in him. It's all kind of, in some ways it's very obvious, but it's also very hidden from us. Just like that, like, do you love me? Or he didn't say, do you love them? He's trying to draw us into this deep, abiding, bonded attachment whereby we are, as Peter would say, participating

in the divine nature. as Paul is constantly saying, you know, the secret is Christ in you. And so it's learning to carry the transcendent presence of God as his agent. Anybody can do it. And I feel like that's my job. How many... Can I just get not another convert, but another agent?

Jason Allison (26:53)
Mm-hmm.

JD (27:02)
think this is the most under-taught thing in the universe, like agency. Like we actually, he's doing this through us because he's in us. And it's not like he's modeling something for us to go imitate and try harder to do more, to be better. We've largely adopted a self-improvement paradigm in our time, a little Jesus sprinkled over it.

Jason Allison (27:11)
Yeah.

Right.

Rob Paterson (27:23)
Mm.

Jason Allison (27:25)
Yeah, yeah. Well, and that's where, you know, we're going. When we when we are recording this, it's, leading up to Easter. It's the week, Holy Week. And the more I have been thinking and studying and just meditating on the what Jesus accomplished both at the cross, but then also in the resurrection was ultimately the the outpouring of the spirit onto all of us.

Rob Paterson (27:26)
Mm.

JD (27:51)
Yes.

Jason Allison (27:51)
And that is really the gospel that we are now connected not just to Jesus, but to the Father because of what Jesus did and how he sent the Spirit. And so now all of us, whether you're a pastor or, you know, a candlestick maker, whatever, a cobbler, right, you are connected and you are operating out of the Spirit of God. And so you can do that. And for a pastor of

JD (28:09)
Yeah.

Jason Allison (28:19)
a small church, a medium church, a big church, doesn't matter, inner city, suburbs, country. The point isn't how big is my church getting or how many converts am I winning? The point is, how am I embodying life in the spirit to the people around me in such a way that I'm helping them then also embody a life filled with the spirit? And that goes back to what you talked about is seed, right? I've got to die to myself before I can do that.

JD (28:46)
Yes.

Jason Allison (28:48)
And so when I do that, I can begin to see the fruit growing up. Again, it's Jesus doing the work. I'm just following his lead. Exactly.

JD (28:54)
He's, he is the seed. He, and

I just was tracing that. We are the soil. We're the seed bed. Nice. Seed bed, which, which interestingly we came by, came up with that word. was back working at the seminary and I started playing around with that word. Seminary comes from the Latin word seminarius. Its literal meaning is seed bed.

Rob Paterson (28:58)
And we are the seedbed.

Jason Allison (29:01)
Yeah.

JD (29:20)
I'm like, what if a seminary could become a seedbed again? That's when I started this, I'm like, well, where would that start? And I said, I wonder if we could read the Bible together here. It's kind of a novel concept, a seminary.

Jason Allison (29:32)
At seminary? No.

Yeah, too busy.

Rob Paterson (29:39)
We have too many other books and too many rules to follow. on.

JD (29:42)
And I've been trying to do that ever since. Like, can we read the Bible together? Could we? And that's what the wake-up call is. It's not a daily devotion. mean, that's kind of what it is. But somebody asked my kids one time, what's your dad do? They said, he writes devotions. I'm like, great. But it's a meeting with Jesus. I'm like, guys, we're meeting with Jesus in the Word of God.

Rob Paterson (29:45)
Hmm.

Jason Allison (29:59)
Ha

Rob Paterson (30:01)
Yeah.

JD (30:10)
And if you want to win the day, you got to win the morning. So that's what we're doing. We're winning the morning. it and it Jesus, he's been waiting on us and we're going to enter in consecration and consecration opens the door into what I call the great cathedral of revelation, the word of God. And then we're going to behold what he's revealing and we're going to the spirits empowering a response to that.

Jason Allison (30:16)
Yeah, yeah.

JD (30:39)
And we're going to respond to that revelation in which that's what transformation is. That's transcendent formation. And then we're going to walk out the door into the world. We're going to get our seed. I always hold up my seed demonstration. We're going to sow love today. We're going to encourage people. We're going to bless people. We're going to be present. We're going to see them. We're going to

We're going to do all the things. There'll be some of them will be climbing up in trees. Others will be left on the road for dead. Just like in the Bible, there'll be women caught in adultery who are living in shame. There'll be all sorts of all the things Jesus people under evil, evil oppression and demonic, you know, presence. It's all the same. It's the same world. And Jesus is just looking for agents like who can I go with today?

Who can I go and do this through today? But I was working with this seed metaphor and it's interesting how the Bible, even Jesus says, you know, the seed, a man comes and scatters the seed and he does nothing and it comes up and there's the leaf, then the blade, then the fruit. And he did nothing.

Rob Paterson (31:34)
Mm.

JD (32:03)
we plant and we get to participate in the harvest, but the seed does everything else and that's Jesus' presence in us. And I was thinking, I thought, you got a seed and then it becomes a shoot and then it becomes leaves and roots, then it becomes a flower and then fruit and then it seeds plural.

Jason Allison (32:32)
Mm.

Rob Paterson (32:32)
Mm.

JD (32:34)
I take these seeds of my little kids in church and my little children's sermon and I say, guys, if we put this seed in the ground, this grain of corn, I said, how many seeds do you think would come from it? And one of them raised her hand. They're like, I think it'll make 10. And then another one thought they were really going to stretch it out, you know, like a hundred. And they thought they were going big. And I said, and I pulled out an ear of corn that I just pulled from a field up the road.

I said, how about 850? One seed becomes 850 seeds. I mean, that's the math of God's kingdom, right? It's extraordinary. Jesus takes a natural miracle to teach us about a supernatural miracle. And all we have to do is sow it. And that's what we're trying to do every morning. We're trying to wake up to the

Jason Allison (33:12)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

JD (33:25)
the Word

of God and sow it in our life and say God's Word.

Rob Paterson (33:27)
Hmph.

Jason Allison (33:29)
Well, before we run out of time having these amazing conversations, I love this. This is I could do this all day long, but I don't want to neglect mentioning a new resource that you just put out that I want to make sure people get. And, you know, it's called it's Exodus, right? ⁓ It's a it's a book on Exodus. It's daily readings and 80 some chapters, right? We just just 90.

JD (33:47)
Excellent, yes.

There's 90,

90. could not, I just looked at it I'm like, what?

Jason Allison (33:59)
90 chapters, so this is three months worth of daily readings. And it basically walks through Exodus. And I love the subtitle, The Path of Deliverance from Wasteland to Graceland. And I'm just curious, like you wrote this and obviously it's just like your other books. There might be a little bit more in each day on this one, at least my experience is I've read through the first little bit of it. But,

JD (34:13)
Yes.

I

was getting wordy wasn't I?

Jason Allison (34:30)
No, no, no, it wasn't wordy. It was just yeah, you there's just more to say right you're trending it Yeah, yeah and you you skip well you skip the first 15 verses you said I'm gonna skip the first 15 and start it right Which I love because it made sense it it's but I mean so tell me why why first of all, why'd you do it?

JD (34:35)
Exodus is long. It's 40 chapters. I go through all 40 of them.

See ya.

It took fifth...

Yeah, well, A, it's our core story. Exodus, I mean, here we are coming into, right, Holy Week, Passover. Passover is the deliverance of God's people from Pharaoh, from Egypt, from slavery, through the wilderness into the promised land.

Jason Allison (34:59)
Yeah. Yep.

JD (35:11)
And it was at the Last Supper. It was at the Passover meal, right? Where Jesus is completely flips the script and says, I'm the Passover lamb. And so I think, I mean, it's kind of like most of us were growing up, just like we were, say, going to see Star Wars, right? When I was growing up, you saw the first Star Wars movie. It was called A New Hope. Turns out it was episode

Season four. I mean, who knew there were three massive seasons before the that's how we come into the gospel. We're like season five Jesus, but you can't you can understand Jesus just straight out. He's that good. But like he wants you to go back season one creation. Then he wants you to go to season two, you know, the fall. Then you want to go to season three, the

Jason Allison (35:46)
Yeah.

JD (36:05)
I call it Abraham. That's a big season. But the Exodus is the critical story by which we can understand.

the story of Jesus. It's interesting on the road to Emmaus, you know, when he comes alongside those guys.

They don't recognize him and this is and then he opened God's Word and he's starting with Moses, it says. He didn't even go back to creation. He's starting with Moses. He interpreted to them. He showed them all the places where he was right there in that story. So Exodus. Yeah, and the other reason why is because people are struggling in the wilderness of their life.

Jason Allison (36:36)
Yeah.

Rob Paterson (36:45)
Hmm.

JD (36:46)
People are struggling. I got my commercial drivers license for driving the struggle bus. I know the wilderness. You guys know it. Everybody knows it. And there's enormous teaching and revelation and wisdom and counsel in Exodus. It's unbelievable. The kind of lead in story that I tell.

Jason Allison (36:53)
You

JD (37:12)
I was with this, I don't know, I guess he was probably 70, 76, 77 year old friend of mine and we're having lunch and he just starts crying and he looks at me and he says, Plan B. I said, what? He said, I guess my life is now destined to be Plan B.

And he starts saying, said, you know, it was 10 years ago that I discovered my 40 year old son who died of a massive heart attack out of nowhere, totally healthy, gone. He said, and then my wife died six years later of a broken heart, nothing wrong with her. She just could not get over it. And he said, my life is now on plan B.

Rob Paterson (37:52)
Mm.

JD (37:59)
Many people feel that way about their life. I'm like, guys, in a Plan B reality, God still has a Plan A story. And He's trying to get us back to Plan A. And of course, Exodus is that story, right? Plan A is the garden. Chapter three, you've already said it, Genesis chapter three is Plan B. And God is...

Rob Paterson (38:15)
Hmm

JD (38:22)
Continuously trying to get us back to plan a starts over again another Adam and Eve Abraham and Sarah Baron and He is going to start bringing them back into plan a a promised land a new Eden Right. He's trying to get us from creation to new creation, but you that pathway goes through the wilderness Unfortunately, and it requires a deliverance. It requires faith it requires

Rob Paterson (38:44)
Huh. Huh.

JD (38:50)
so much and you know the beautiful thing about this is that man Mike who I was talking to back there when I was doing this he's just he's like almost 80 now he's just become engaged he's married a widower and it's just like the girl of his dreams in high school they've reconnected and they're getting married next month I'm like

Rob Paterson (39:13)
you

JD (39:18)
He's back on plan A. He's not resigned to plan B. And that's why I wrote this is because people need to know that.

that life is hard, it's not fair. And guess what? God's not fair. He's better than fair. I heard a preacher say the other day, said, if you want fair, go to hell because that's where everything's fair. That was old Howerton. Yeah, I'm like, that's exactly right. God's fair. Thank God God's not fair. Grace is not fair.

Rob Paterson (39:33)
That's right. That's right.

I heard that too.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So.

Amen.

JD, I love this. So we started, we're out of time, but it doesn't matter. It's a podcast, right? Jason, got two more hours. No, so I'm going to tell a secret. right before we started, as the countdown was happening before the recording started, you yawned and you said, wake up. You know, like you're trying to.

JD (39:57)
It's long form. Let's go Joe Rogan.

Jason Allison (39:59)
you

JD (40:02)
Three hours later.

Rob Paterson (40:15)
And then you said, Hey man, I'm trying to live this more transcendent way as opposed to, know, resting from work and resting for work. And, you know, we all understand the struggle bus. Like, so there's been all these things, but I just want, I just want to encourage you, man, the last 40 plus minutes now, you have given us transcendent truth. have lived at least in this window, a transcendent life.

JD (40:36)
Praise the Lord.

Rob Paterson (40:39)
And man, you are such a gift to us and to the church. So I just want to ask like as a final thing, you know, what man, what, what is giving, as you think about the church, as you look out at the church, you know, I think this would be a great thing just to share with people kind of as we wrap today, you know, what gives you hope when you're looking out at the church?

JD (40:43)
Wow.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, isn't that something I'm a renowned Bible teacher and nobody has any idea who I am. I mean, it's great. I'm like nothing. And I just, I just turned 59. Okay. I came on that day. I held up four fingers. That's it. I entered the 60th years, fourth quarter. All right. I feel like game on it's time. It's finally time for me to.

Jason Allison (41:03)
You

Rob Paterson (41:05)
you

JD (41:21)
wake up and start sowing for a great awakening. I think it's just all been practiced and preamble till now. no, I'm, it's the other great symbol of this story of Exodus is the burning bush. Okay, I call them the 10 words.

I think these are maybe the ten most important words in the Bible, okay? Hyperbolic and emphatic.

The bush was on fire. It did not burn up. Okay, that's transcendence. The bush was on fire. It did not burn up. That's a picture of what happens when Jesus has us, right? And so that's what I'm trying to impart to people. I'm like, stop asking Jesus to

Rob Paterson (42:05)
Mmm.

JD (42:13)
to help you and just invite him to have you. Jesus have me. And that's what's going on at that burning bush. Moses is like, here I am. And Moses is like that 75 year old man who said, I guess my life is just on plan B now.

He was on the backside of the wilderness of Midian herding sheep for his father-in-law. Weren't even his own sheep born. Put out there in that river, picked up by Pharaoh's house. What a story. And I just, I'm like, people, it's time to wake up and realize that all these storylines that are swirling around our lives, that's not the real story.

Rob Paterson (42:55)
Mm.

JD (43:01)
There's a better story. It's a bigger story. It's not plan B, it's plan A and you're right on time for it. No matter what's happened, no matter how far you feel like you've fallen into pastors, pastors, they feel like, I guess I've just kind of missed it. This is not what I had hoped for. You know, right? What they said on the road to a mass. We had hoped. We had hoped. I'm like, me too.

Jason Allison (43:25)
Mm.

JD (43:30)
There's something better than what we had hoped for. And it's actually small. Like let's get smaller. Let's get down at the seed level and let's let go of the myth of mega and the, you know, story of scaling and let's get back down on the ground and realize that one person.

says Jesus have me and starts saying Jesus I belong to you and starts walking out into the audacity of that reality that's a world-changing person. mean just one. Two, it's this it Jesus in fact in that parable of the sower right he's like if you get one out of four seeds that hit the the right soil it's

Rob Paterson (44:11)
Mm-mm.

JD (44:24)
It's your Babe Ruth. You led the league in strikeouts and home runs. That's it, pastor. You will, if you can get 25%, if you can endure and persevere through a 75 % fail rate, you will win. You're winning in fact.

Jason Allison (44:30)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Rob Paterson (44:30)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Allison (44:47)
Wow. Well, it is. And I know a lot of pastors out there who are focusing on the 75 % fail rate. ⁓ And we just forget that Jesus said, no, no, no, no, no, you aren't controlling that part of it. You just keep throwing seed and you keep swinging because if you never get up to the plate, you never strike out, but you also never hit a home run.

JD (44:48)
Isn't that the story?

Rob Paterson (44:50)
it is.

JD (44:55)
⁓ it's terrible.

Keep swinging.

Never.

Jason Allison (45:12)
And so I appreciate your encouragement and admonishment in a way of hey, keep going. Keep the focus in the right place. That's JD. Thank you for your time. And there's I just will put links in the show notes, but I mean, people need to go to see bed, you know, ministries and their website is.

JD (45:30)
I want you to come

just check out the wake up call. Okay. Just give me a couple of weeks. It's, it is, one of my mottos. If it's worth doing, it's worth doing poorly. Okay. I'll give you permission to just be yourself. Come on and give it a shot. This thing is helping people and it's encouraging people and it's simple.

Jason Allison (45:41)
Ha

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. Well, and I know I'm subscribed to it, both the email and the podcast. That way I see it. If I don't get a chance to listen to it, then I can always read it. And then, of course, I've got the book version for Lent, but that runs out here in a few days.

JD (46:07)
I appreciate

Jason, you getting that and diving in there with me. We're about to start Ephesians on April 5th or 6th. That's Easter Monday, April 6th.

Jason Allison (46:14)
Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

I'm looking forward to that as well. So I but I just encourage pastors. It's it is it's worth the time and effort and it just for me at least it refocuses me on what's important. You know, it's that it's like a little reset button every morning to say, wait a minute. What's most vital? What you know, wake up and and and let Christ shine in you. And so I appreciate that. So thank you so much for your time.

JD (46:36)
Wake up.

Jason Allison (46:42)
for your efforts, for all that you're doing. I know you're not doing it for our accolades or for being a renowned ⁓ author, but I know you're doing it because when God puts something on your heart, you're gonna listen and obey. And so we appreciate that.

JD (46:49)
Noun Bible teacher, what?

Rob Paterson (46:51)
Hehehehehe

JD (46:59)
Well, Rob

and Jason, thank y'all. All right? Keep on keeping on. You're doing it.

Jason Allison (47:02)
course. Yeah.

Well, we appreciate that. And to all of our listeners, we appreciate you. And please know, as we say every week, we are on your side. We're cheering for you and we're praying for you. Feel free to reach out and let us know how we might help you more. Have an amazing week and we'll talk with you soon.