Christmas Talk for Pastors and Leaders

In this episode of the Church Talk podcast, hosts Rob and Jason discuss the complexities and joys of the Christmas season, particularly from the perspective of church leaders and empty nesters. They explore the challenges of balancing ministry responsibilities with family time, the importance of acknowledging personal needs during the busy holiday season, and the creative struggle of presenting familiar Christmas messages in fresh ways. The conversation emphasizes the need for trust in God amidst the chaos and the value of prioritizing family and rest during this time.

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Transcript

Jason Allison (00:01)
Welcome back to the Church Talk podcast with Rob and Jason. Rob, it's Christmas. It's the week of Christmas. Are you excited? Are you like giddy like a little school girl?

Rob Paterson (00:12)
You know what? mean, even though it's one of the busier weeks of my year, we have way more church stuff than any other time of year in terms of all of our things, gatherings, services, whatever you want to call them. I love this time of year. I love the busyness. love, I just love all the things except for, me, let me give one caveat to that. Leading up to Christmas,

Jason Allison (00:33)
Yeah.

Rob Paterson (00:40)
We were down in Columbus actually a couple weeks ago for Liam's birthday. I was on a Friday. And then the next week I was in Columbus again on a Wednesday, both in the middle of the day and parking lots at stores, at malls, even just finding a place to park, people cutting you off. Like the busyness of kind of that consumer rush is not something that I love.

Jason Allison (01:04)
yeah.

No, my wife and I do not leave our little town to go 20 minutes down the road to the major shopping areas of Columbus. We just are like, nope, not going to do it. They're actually building an entire new exit off of I-71 to ease the traffic for the exit that goes to my little town because there's an outlet mall there and they're building a whole new exit just to

make it so that it doesn't get so crazy during those peak times. This is a two-year project they're starting to build an exit because of consumerism.

Rob Paterson (01:43)
You know, this is really not the point of this episode, but man, the one time I went to that outlet mall was the year Christopher was heading off to college. like whatever, three years ago now. And so we went to do some, you know, back to school shopping to make sure he had the appropriate shirts and jeans and whatever. So we went to that outlet mall. It took us 45 minutes.

find a parking space. And this is just like a regular, you know, day in early August, people were not only filling every parking space and the whole like in the lots were huge, but people literally found ways to pull up onto like the grassy knolls and park there too. Which, you know, I think sometimes for people like us who are, you know, pastors and leaders in ministry is one of the things that is

Jason Allison (02:17)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Rob Paterson (02:38)
overwhelming in a not so good way is we see people's passion and commitment to debt and materialism and kind of they're like, well, I can't really participate in anything that helps me celebrate or focus on Jesus because I'm too busy with these other things that really don't matter at all and are likely gonna make your life worse. And it's just that tension is not super fun to sort of live in. Right, oh no, it's totally true.

Jason Allison (02:45)
Yeah.

And, if you call it out, you're just being a jerk, right? Yeah.

I know. Yeah.

Rob Paterson (03:07)
It is true.

It almost if I'm ever going to talk about stuff like that, I talk about it like the first week of December, you know, not as we get closer to because the I mean, it's like what they say, you know, if somebody's swimming across a river and their goal is to make it to the other side and they've been training to do this and you see that there's all kinds of, you know, eddies and currents and things in the middle and you go save them before they get to that, they're going to be mad at you because you kept them from their goal.

But if you wait till the river pulls them under and they're getting ready to go down for the last time and you grab them and pull them in, man, they're like, thank you so much. And so, if you're gonna preach on something like, hey, we wanna help you with money management and getting out of debt, in January is a great time to do that when the credit card bills are coming due. People are like, I don't wanna do this every year. I gotta stop this insanity.

Jason Allison (03:56)
Yes.

We're we're buckling

down this year, right? You know, yeah. Uh-huh. Good luck with that. Yeah.

Rob Paterson (04:02)
Yeah, That's a point. So

Jason, how do you how do you? I mean, as somebody who now is like truly an empty nester, what do you do to celebrate Christmas?

Jason Allison (04:15)
Well, here's the crazy thing. Not only are we empty nesters, but now this is my first Christmas that I am not on staff at a church. So like 30 plus years, every Christmas was crazy. Just and you're experiencing it. you I mean, you embrace the good parts and the bad. Like you have a pretty healthy perspective on, you know, the busyness of the season. But, you know, I'm literally sitting here saying, I don't.

have to do anything for the next week and a half. You know, there's no services I have to go to. There's no message to prep. There's no meditation for Christmas Eve service. You know, there's no making sure that although, you know, the musicians are lined up or the songs are picked out, know, none of that. And I got to admit, it's really nice. Like I was literally I was telling telling Kristen the other day, I was like, I

Rob Paterson (05:02)
Mm.

Jason Allison (05:07)
almost enjoy Christmas this year. Like this is kind of weird, but I can, I actually am looking forward to Christmas and I can't say that I've said that in a long time.

Rob Paterson (05:21)
That's really interesting. kind of, it kind of, you know, I think two thoughts here. One is it'll be interesting to talk next year and the year after, because I have a lot of friends who, you know, have transitioned out of local church ministry into more regional or kind of national ministry, you know, with districts or denominations. And they all say the same thing. Like, I mean, I've heard them say, like just the weight, the stress, the pressure of all the things, you know, it is not great.

Jason Allison (05:36)
Yeah. Yeah.

Rob Paterson (05:49)
And so it's so nice, but then as time goes on they're like I kind of miss it So I don't know like if this is like a detox year You'll get back to missing it if you're like, nope just you know happy to not be participating in the insanity and It's kind of like Sabbath to you know, like when you talk about that as somebody in ministry and you're like you're always trying to creatively figure out like

Jason Allison (05:54)
Yeah.

Rob Paterson (06:13)
how to practice this when on like the day that we would say it's Sabbath for others, you know, we're working and we're super busy on that day. And so in the same way, like, you know, the, just the time, the importance, the magic, if you will, of Christmas, sometimes for the ones who are really responsible for all the things is not super magical. And so, you know, just.

Jason Allison (06:20)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, I really do think about pastors and especially worship leaders during this time, because, you know, they're usually the ones that are having to put together three programs and deal with, you know, different things that you just they're not normal things that you have to deal with during the typical Sundays. And so, yeah, I think about them and I've got a I've got a long prayer list of of people that I'm saying, OK, I know they've got a crazy couple of weeks.

Rob Paterson (06:43)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Allison (07:03)
But as a regional person, right? I like, I don't bother people for the next two weeks. And, and I mean, some of that's, I've been traveling at a time. I'm just tired. But some of it is also, they don't need me to be bugging them about anything. They need to just focus on that and then shut down when it's time and not feel bad about that. Uh, you know, so I, part of my, my role is, generally to say, Hey, what can I do to, to help you take a break?

Rob Paterson (07:09)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Allison (07:33)
You know when when this stuff is going on? So I I had coffee yesterday with the guy in the area, but he is a big fan of the podcast listens all the time and so we were talking about and he's the one who Called me at noon on a Saturday and asked if I'd preach the next day because he was sick, right? ⁓ and I did and and and so We were just talking and he he was very very kind in the way he described

Rob Paterson (07:51)
Yeah.

Jason Allison (07:59)
the ministry of our podcast, you know, to the church world. But one of the things that he said is that you guys really are casting a vision of probably the healthiest version of church that he's seen or can imagine. And I just thought, you know, I took that as a compliment and I don't say that like we should. Everybody needs to be so inspired. Yeah. But but just the idea of and honestly, as he kind of explained more, was

Rob Paterson (08:19)
Do things our way.

Jason Allison (08:25)
We just we are just willing to admit that some of the stuff is hard and some of the stuff is not simple and some of the stuff is it's people sometimes are really crappy to deal with and sometimes we're crappy to deal with right and so it's there's something about that honesty that is just like okay let's just admit where things are hard let's let's not pretend and christmas is one of those seasons that it just gets busy you know the traffic the parking spaces the

dealing with. mean, it's just ridiculous. And so we just acknowledge it and say, you know what? But God is here and we just keep going. And I'm I'm getting to that point where I can do that.

Rob Paterson (09:05)
That's really cool. I'm thinking of just a couple of examples in my context that are cool in that they, if you pre-plan a little bit, if you think about some things beforehand and do some different steps. my worship leader, and Jeremy is awesome, but I know a lot of times after all of our Christmas stuff, before we get to, always do an 11 o'clock, 11 p.m.

candlelight, some sort of version of telling of the Christmas story and some way, some way, or form. And then I love just being able to pray, you know, when it's like 1202 as we're ending, like just saying Merry Christmas. And we're so thankful for the greatest gift ever given. And, you know, but man, he, and especially if there's vocalists who have sung for other three gatherings, you know, that earlier that day and the day before, you know, I mean, they're all

Jason Allison (09:57)
for other people to

Rob Paterson (10:04)
sipping tea with honey, you know, they're all like not talking much to try to preserve the last vestiges of their voices. And this year, and Jeremy's like this anyway, like he totally buys into the idea of like, multiplying, you know, leaders and people. And so he works hard to when there are gifted people who come along to, know, raise them up as musicians as vocalists, whatever. And so just this last Sunday, he actually had

Jason Allison (10:09)
Yeah. Yeah.

you

Yeah.

Rob Paterson (10:31)
another team leading, he was actually up in our tech booth, helping up there and being involved up there. and I thought that was such a great thing. You know, it's like, Hey, you don't need like, you don't care about being the star every week. What you care about is, you know, raising up other people and, you know, preserving your stuff for kind of the important moments where we, need you most, which I just love that. So if you can, if you can do that, that's great. I,

Jason Allison (10:38)
Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Rob Paterson (10:58)
You know, I was telling you earlier, one of our tech people was in the building here just actually yesterday. And he was messing with lights. I don't know what I don't know what they do up in the rafters, you know, but we have a scissor lift that was actually donated to us. And as it goes up, it kind of has this like little, you know, kind of thing that looks like a trellis. And, and I started thinking to myself, and I said, Hey, Mark, his name is Mark Ellis, I said Mark.

Jason Allison (11:17)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Rob Paterson (11:26)
You've heard of Elf on a Shelf, but now I give you Ellis on a Trellis." And he of course laughed and it was pretty fun. But I just love people not doing stuff like last minute, days and weeks earlier, kind of doing things that help execute really well.

Jason Allison (11:31)
Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, I, I am terrible at planning ahead on some things, other things I'm anal retentive about. so Christmas is one of those that always sneaks up on me. And part of it, I mean, I have, I've been on the road, like I can just too many things going too many balls in the air, you know? And so trying to focus long enough to say, okay, wait, do I have a Christmas list that I've, you know, have I done at least figured out who I'm

Rob Paterson (11:53)
Mmm.

Jason Allison (12:08)
buying anything for and all the stuff and that's all good. But yeah, Christmas is one of those things that generally sneaks up. I mean, it comes literally on the same day every year, right? It's not even like Thanksgiving. it the third Thursday, the second Thursday, the second to last Thursday? can... Easter, my gosh, you need like a calculator to figure out when Easter is going to be each year. But Christmas, same day, 25th every year. And it still sneaks up on me.

Rob Paterson (12:34)
Uh, that and I agree with you. I just feel like in the busyness of the rhythms of ministry, um, it is so easy. What, you know, I had a funeral recently where I had to travel out of state and then I got back to the state, you know, had to preach like 10 hours later after arriving home. Uh, and then, uh, I don't know, like less than 24 hours after that, you and I,

drove seven hours and we're gone for a week, you doing stuff with some churches and with our region. And so yeah, like just the busyness of life, just being, you know, doing all the things week after week and the rhythms. agree. And you heard me tell this story. I don't think I've ever told this publicly, but I was, I was talking to a guy that I'm coaching right now who's a church planter.

And he was just talking about this, doing like discipling people and pouring into people and then like still needing to preach well and just like the weight of like, like I need to make sure I love my, you know, big growing family well and just all the things, you know, and just the way to that. And I'm like, I still remember the one time in 30 years where I just felt like I was walking up to the, to the front, to the pulpit, however you want to say it, to preach.

Jason Allison (13:28)
more.

Yeah.

Rob Paterson (13:52)
that I just felt like I have completely failed. I have really, you know,

my plan, my outline, my whatever is relatively non-existent. And it was an Easter Sunday at our second church play. And I had just been so busy doing things that I just ran out of time. Now, thankfully the message, you know, is still kind of the message. But I mean, it was probably the shortest message I ever preached.

Jason Allison (14:07)
I just want to add a sign.

Rob Paterson (14:18)
I just felt so empty declaring something so great. And I just like determined like whether it kills me, I'm just never gonna be unprepared ever again. And I think one of the challenges Jason for pastors, and this is probably a thing to acknowledge is, and I feel this every single year, how do we creatively frame and talk about the exact same thing for decades? know, because it's like I could just

Jason Allison (14:22)
Yeah Yeah

Yeah.

Rob Paterson (14:46)
pull out the same message. That was a great message I did. And so I just do it every year, but then it becomes even more repetitive. It doesn't stand out. So the message doesn't change, but how we communicate it and the angle we take, I think, is a challenge as well.

Jason Allison (15:00)
Yeah, that's the thing about Christmas and Easter, both of those services, right? mean, that story is the same every year. And there is a power in retelling that story over and over. Right. mean, that's why there's a rhythm. That's why there's a liturgical calendar. It's to remind us that we are in a cycle of remembering the different aspects of the gospel.

Right from the, from Advent to Easter to ordinary time. Right. and so there's something about remembering that, also, man, how many different ways do you talk about the shepherds and, and, know, and the Magi and the gifts and the, know, like it's just that that story, it can become very, repetitive in, in our minds. Now the flip side of it is most of the people who walk into church.

haven't thought about it for a year. And if you just bring it up again, they're going to be like, yeah, this is great. You know, like they're not looking so, but I I've always tried to challenge myself to, you know, just bring in a, in a devotional thought, especially Christmas Eve services, right? Where you're not doing a full sermon necessarily. There's a lot of music, a lot of whatever, bring just an angle to it. That's a little bit different, a perspective that's like, but that takes work. You know, I mean, that's not just a,

Simple. yeah, I'll sit down and in 10 minutes, you know, write this out that this is sometimes I'll start thinking about it in September because I just want and I'm not writing anything yet, but like I just want to be creative in the way I present this story because and you've said this before it's it is such a beautiful, amazing story that is literally life changing. And so I want to honor that in the way I present it and the way I talk about it.

Rob Paterson (16:27)
Yeah.

Hmm.

Jason Allison (16:47)
But also it's the same story.

Rob Paterson (16:50)
Yeah, maybe I would say it this way. And hopefully this just this sentence gives hope to some of our listeners. If you're if you're crazy enough to be listening to this, you know, just a couple of days before all your Christmas things. Wow. And if not, you listen to it afterwards and you're like, I didn't really have a great idea. I wasn't all that creative this year. Consistency is greater than creativity when it.

comes to things like this. And yeah, there's gonna be, think, years where we do have some creativity and some good ideas that we can bring that help, you know, just add a fresh perspective. But then there are other years where like, actually next year, we already have it planned out next year for Christmas, we're just going very traditional and we're gonna do all the things we never do. We're gonna do like an advent lighting candle lighting. We're gonna try to have a choir on stage.

Just because at New Hope, like we're always trying to figure things out in a creative way. And you know what, like I'm gonna give, I'll give the punchline away. Cause again, it's the same story, right? So at New Hope this year, so we, and you feel the stress cause you know, there's one Sunday and this year Christmas is right in the middle. So all of our Christmas Eve things. So I'm gonna preach Sunday and then I'm gonna preach on the eve of Christmas Eve once.

Jason Allison (17:43)
Yeah.

Rob Paterson (18:05)
and then the same sermon twice the next day, and then we have the candlelight. So we do, you know, four things in two days. ⁓

Jason Allison (18:13)
Yeah, and that's and that's

only a couple days after Sunday. Yeah, you cram like a month, a month worth of stuff into four days.

Rob Paterson (18:17)
Yeah, yeah, so sermon, sermon, sermon, sermon,

You're right. So there's all that, here's for, because we're actually recording this just like a day or two before the Sunday before Christmas Eve. So like my big idea this Sunday is where it talks about how Mary treasured these things in her heart.

So even after all the difficulties surrounding the Christmas story, I Mary and Joseph never saw the star. They had no idea about that. The angels were terrifying, but they talked to the shepherds. The gifts showed up months to years later when the Magi came to not the stable, but a house. There's all kinds of things, like the idea of this four-day, 90-mile trip with someone highly pregnant.

you know, probably took seven to 10 days just because of the train and Mary's state. I mean, just all those things, right? We think about the Christmas story through this magical lens, but even that first Christmas, there was all this difficulty. And so the weekend before Christmas, what I want to focus on is just the idea that I just totally lost my train of thought. That's awesome, right?

Jason Allison (19:16)
Yeah.

that yeah, cause you're,

you're gonna, you're gonna get up on stage on Sunday and the main, and the main, it's going to be gone.

Rob Paterson (19:36)
I'm gonna have a s-

No, but the idea that I remember now, thank you for that little buffer, that man, like even after all that difficulty, if our eyes are truly on the greatest treasure, which was Jesus, that like we can treasure, we can have treasure in our hearts. And so like, what is the most important treasure? Is it that thing that's gonna wear out or break? Is it that toy that our kids aren't gonna even remember a couple months from now? No, it's Jesus and taking at least some time to focus on and prioritize him.

Jason Allison (19:52)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Rob Paterson (20:07)
And then for Christmas gatherings, my whole big idea, and this is a little bit, I say this with fear and trembling, I'm gonna talk about some of the biggest mistakes that I made in my life. just really focus on the idea of that's why for all of us, we need a savior. And this is what Jesus, and me too. We can...

Jason Allison (20:26)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Rob Paterson (20:32)
have a smile on our face, we can put our best foot forward, we can talk about ourselves in glowing ways, but at the end of the day, if we're being honest about the things we've said, the things we've done, the darkness in our own souls, every single one of us needs a savior. So, you know, I mean, again, same story, but just trying to dig in a little bit and then.

Jason Allison (20:49)
Yeah.

Yeah,

I saw John Ortberg just came out with a new book called Steps, and he's tying spiritual formation to the 12 steps of the programs and the connections there and all that. And I heard him being interviewed about it. And, you know, honestly, the most important thing and you're hinting at it right here is the first step of a right is to acknowledge I have a problem. And I think some of

Rob Paterson (21:18)
Mm.

Jason Allison (21:20)
The things we do at Christmas is we spend so much time covering over any problems to make everybody happy, to make everything pretty and gracious and glorious and pretty, all the stuff. We forget that the first step in actually worshiping the greatest gift is to acknowledge, I need that gift. Without it, none of this matters. And I am broken and I am a sinner and I need God to step in.

And he did, you know, like, and so there's something about Christmas that it needs to remind us that, man, if God hadn't stepped in, we would be lost, but he did. And so can I, can I even, even moving through this crazy season, can I start with, I need a savior. I need Christmas to have happened, not because I needed the gifts of, you know, and all the stuff.

Rob Paterson (22:03)
Mm.

Jason Allison (22:18)
but because I needed a savior. you know, that's that's kind of where it's kind of what you're doing right in this process saying I've blown it many times my life and I'm hoping they record those so I can get those. And although I probably know a lot of them. So yeah, that's I don't know. I just thought that was interesting that to think about the fact that that step one of recovery, any of this is.

I'm broken and I need help.

Rob Paterson (22:45)
Yeah, so speaking of being broken, I think for so many pastors, if we're being honest, after and especially if you have extra things, if you do a Christmas Eve thing, if you do a Christmas Day thing that some pastors and churches do that, I'm all out on that. But ⁓ here's the deal. And especially this year for me, I just am like, Jesus loves me when Christmas aligns with a Sunday.

Jason Allison (22:47)
⁓ huh.

That's crazy. Yeah.

Rob Paterson (23:11)
because like, you you get to sort of play almost double the energy of a regular Sunday where it went in the middle of the week, you know, logistically that's going to create challenges. You're going to, you know, potentially have less people. And then I've always had this thing and we had it just this last Sunday at my church, because here in Ohio, it decided to have our sort of biggest snow of the year Saturday night through into Sunday morning.

Jason Allison (23:21)
Mm-hmm.

Yep.

Rob Paterson (23:35)
And anytime that happens, always like, still remember our first church plant. I'm sorry. Our second church plant. It was in Michigan and we were, I was driving to our launch service and the ice from the storm the night before was so thick. could, I literally spent a half hour like with the car warmed up trying to like scrape it off. couldn't. I thankfully the building we started in was just like a half mile from my house.

I drove with my head out the window to get there. But it was then that I just like came up with this little tune to, or the little thing to the tune of it's beginning to look a lot like Christmas. And I would just sing it's beginning to look a lot like God hates us, right? Like God, can, it can storm. can ice storm, snowstorm, whatever any other day of the week, but in the winter time, it's, you know, not on Saturday night into Sunday morning, just any other time is fine. Right. Um,

Jason Allison (24:16)
Yep.

Rob Paterson (24:31)
So pastor, leader, high level volunteer, whoever you are listening to this, after you get through all the extra stuff of Christmas, you have got to do something to recover. Like Andy Stanley says, you've got to choose to cheat and you're likely going to choose to cheat your family for all the things going on in your church in these coming days. But then after that's done, you've got to choose to cheat the church.

Jason Allison (24:45)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Rob Paterson (24:57)
for a week or so in order to spend time with your family, in order to recover just your own, you know, personally and do things that breathe life back into you.

Jason Allison (25:03)
Yeah.

Yeah, yes, I think we could almost stop right there and say, do that and you will live.

Rob Paterson (25:13)
Yeah,

yeah. Well, let's let's give some practical ideas like what are what are some because people go might go Yeah, that's great. But like you said, Rob, you know, I get done on Wednesday, Wednesday night. So really into Thursday morning with maybe all my Christmas things, depending on, you know, how you structure that stuff. And you're like, and then I've got to preach, you know, like a few days later. So like one one practical thing I would say is

And if you're listening to this before Christmas, I would say if you can figure it out, like try really hard, even now, even for this year, find somebody to preach for you the week after Christmas.

Jason Allison (25:49)
Or what we've done in the past, don't have Sunday services the Sunday between Christmas and New Year's. Like just shut down. Let your volunteers rest. Let your staff rest. Let the building rest. Right. Like just give it a week. It's OK. You know, you were talking earlier before we hit record about you'd been reflecting on Ecclesiastes.

You know, end, Ecclesiastes chapter one, about verse nine, I think it says there's nothing new under the sun. Right. And the idea is, guess what? We can do all this crazy stuff, but God's still in charge. Like it, there's nothing new to him. And so let him drive for a week. You know, like, let it just settle and it's OK. So that would be I'm with you either.

That's the week the youth pastor preaches, right? cause let's be honest, you're only going to have about 50 % attendance anyway, or you just acknowledge that and say, let's, let's just shut it down for a week and then we'll kick back in the net. mean, we're not pausing everything, but let's, let's just take a breath. so that, would be my suggestion on top of, know, or, in addition to what you're saying.

Rob Paterson (27:00)
Yeah.

Well, and I would add to that because I still remember it was probably not the last time. It was probably two times ago where Christmas fell on a Sunday. And because we did things Friday and Saturday, we literally, was like when Christmas falls on Sunday, we don't have Sunday stuff. We do it on the days before. And then we say Sunday, go be blessed and don't come.

I was actually interviewed along with a myriad of other pastors for a newspaper article for one of our local papers. man, I got like lots, not from my church, but from people, Christians in the community and in the surrounding communities. got like flack and push back to that. You know, I've talked to pastors who literally like think that it's godless to not do like a church thing on Christmas day.

Jason Allison (27:39)
Mm.

Rob Paterson (27:53)
So I completely understand that tension and pressure. And I also understand just the idea of, I can't afford to lose, you know, ⁓ even if it's meager, you know, any offering. But there too, that's where we say, you know, we can trust God. And I really want to stress this, you know, if you have a family, you need to prioritize your family after this busy season. This is why

Jason Allison (28:03)
Mm-hmm.

Rob Paterson (28:21)
I just think the week after Christmas, the church office is closed. If you have office hours, you're not responding to anything but the most like if someone is literally dying in 27 minutes, you can go see them and pray for them. Other than that, like it's not that big of an emergency. And this is how your kids are going to grow up healthy. This is how your spouse is going to know that they matter to you and that you care.

because you're like, hey, I know this was a busy season for all of us, but now this next window is about us and time together and creating our memories and doing our things.

Jason Allison (28:55)
Yeah, I agree. Man, if you can do that as a pastor, like you are you are winning. Yeah, I mean, just in life, like I and I this maybe I'm over spiritualizing this, but I really think if you can, you know, pour yourself into this this week of, you know, celebrations and pointing people to Jesus, because we know people are way more likely to join someone for a Christmas Eve service. Right. So this is an opportunity. I'm not I don't want to downplay that.

for your people to bring people and for you to truly present the joy of Christmas in the gospel, but man, if you will then pour that same amount of energy into your family, you know, the week after that, I think God is just smiling, saying, I love that. That's so, I'm glad they're having fun. That's just, don't, and I think sometimes we forget that God

I mean, God wants us to have fun. God wants us to enjoy life. He gave us sex as just a gift. Right. I mean, like he didn't have to do that. He didn't have to make procreate. And then he commands us to be fruitful and multiply. Like, I think God enjoys the fact that we can enjoy life. And sometimes we need to get the stick out of our butt and start enjoying life a little bit. And so.

Rob Paterson (29:56)
Haha

Mm.

Yeah.

Jason Allison (30:15)
Maybe I went on a rampage there, sorry.

Rob Paterson (30:18)
No, I

love that. Well, and it's the same, you know, as like, let's say Christmas morning when like your kids are rifling through their stocking or they open a present that you got them. it's man, it's something that's meaningful. It's something that just lights up their face. It's something they wanted. It's something they need. It's something that they've really wanted to try out. And then you as their parent provided that for them. And man, they're so full of joy and excitement and gratitude and love and all the things, right. And as a parent,

Jason Allison (30:39)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Rob Paterson (30:46)
I don't even care if you're not a great parent. That just makes you smile, right? You're like, And so how much more than, Matthew even tells us this, right? If we give our kids good gifts, even though we're evil, how much more does our heavenly father wanna give good gifts to us as his children? And I mean, is, I completely agree with you. And Jason, I think we gotta like.

Jason Allison (30:50)
It does.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Rob Paterson (31:12)
Before we wrap up this Christmas episode, think we just got to say one more thing because we totally understand. Like I'm there. Jason has been there for the last three decades. You know, we understand like all the tensions because you might be thinking, it's easy for them to say I should do this or do that or spend this time. They don't understand my life, my schedule, my demands. And maybe, you know, exactly what it feels like to be in your skin is not something we know, but we certainly

understand those dynamics and we understand that tension too. Like it's hard to be present when you have lots of things coming up and still to all that, like there's a reason we tell our kids and our people in our churches that they can trust God, right? So tithe and you can trust that God's gonna bless that 90 % to actually do more than

Jason Allison (31:42)
and we understand that.

Yeah,

Rob Paterson (32:09)
100 % would. You know, we tell people to Sabbath. So

Jason Allison (32:09)
100%. Yeah.

Rob Paterson (32:14)
you can trust God that you could actually with his blessing and presence get more done in six days than you could in seven without him. And so this is that exact same thing, which goes back to that Ecclesiastes thing. There's nothing new under the sun, right? And okay, so maybe, maybe that was true for a while, but then all of a sudden, when the Quo'oleth was writing,

Jason Allison (32:21)
Yeah.

Rob Paterson (32:37)
you know, he did not envision automobiles or space travel or, you know, or any of that stuff that we have now. so there obviously are new things, but what that's referring to is in God's economy, the way that God says things work are still the way things work. And so guess what? You can trust God to run the world and to run your church for the week after Christmas.

Jason Allison (33:01)
Amen.

Well, I think it's a good place to end personally, because if man, if you can trust God to do that, you are truly understanding what it is to be a follower of Jesus and to let

God grow his kingdom and for you to be part of it. Man, I hope this year, we'll have one more episode before the end of the year, but looking back over this past year, Rob, it's been so much fun. We've had some amazing guests. We've had some great conversations and I've been seeing just little inklings of a little bit of more and more people starting to listen and catch hold and I'm getting lots of positive feedback. And so I just want to encourage our listeners.

Take a minute, share this podcast if you find it helpful. Subscribe to it. Give us a shout. mean, you can reach out to us and we're not so crazy busy and we don't even have secretaries that are going to screen the calls. So reach out and we'd love to hear your story and what's going on in your neck of the woods and how we can be praying for you and supporting you. So Rob, man, Merry Christmas, my friend.

I'm looking forward to hanging out sometime soon.

Rob Paterson (34:05)
Sounds good. Love you, brother.

Jason Allison (34:06)
Alright,

take care man. Love you.