The Bucket Ministry with Matt Arnett

In this episode of the Church Talk podcast, hosts Jason Allison and Rob Paterson engage in a lively discussion with Matt Arnett, the community director of the Bucket Ministry. They explore Matt's journey from a church-going child to a leader in a nonprofit organization focused on providing clean water and sharing the love of Jesus. The conversation delves into the challenges faced in ministry, the importance of local partnerships, and the holistic approach to mission work that combines physical needs with spiritual growth. Matt shares insights on the impact of the Bucket Ministry, the significance of indigenous leadership, and the encouragement for church leaders to embrace their role in God's mission.

The Bucket Ministry

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Personal Anecdotes
04:10 Introducing Matt Arnett and His Mission
05:17 Matt's Journey to Ministry
09:40 Finding Purpose in Adversity
12:33 The Bucket Ministry's Impact
18:58 Distribution and Reach of Clean Water Solutions
20:02 Introduction to Water Filters and Community Impact
22:11 Overcoming Skepticism in Water Distribution
25:14 The Dual Gift: Water and the Gospel
26:46 Empowering Local Leaders for Sustainable Change
29:20 The Role of Discipleship in Missions
31:51 Bridging the Gap: Evangelism and Discipleship
35:16 Integrating Mission: A Holistic Approach
38:46 Encouragement for Church Leaders
40:58 How to Get Involved with The Bucket Ministry

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Transcript

Jason Allison (00:01.479)
Hey everybody. Welcome back to the church talk podcast with Robin Jason. We are so glad that you have joined us for another week, another episode. Rob, man, it's good to see you. I, I feel sad, because it I've been rained out the last two times I was supposed to play golf and I it's, really getting to be a sad thing for me. And I know you got rained out today. Like I feel like God hates us. Do you think that's the problem?

Hahaha

Rob Paterson (00:32.03)
You know what, Jason, we planted our second church up in Michigan and we launched in the winter time because we weren't ready, you know, kind of in that fall window, but we didn't want to miss Christmas. So we launched in early December and the very first day of the church starting weekly gatherings. It was an ice storm in Michigan.

And I started singing a song, you know, to the tune of it's beginning to look a lot like Christmas, but I kept singing. It's beginning to look a lot like God hates us, which is sometimes how you feel if you're church planting in, you know, a very cold snowy state.

Jason Allison (01:04.166)
Yeah.

Jason Allison (01:09.979)
Yes, yes, yes. Well, and of course, you know, we've all faced those kind of things and I wouldn't call it, you know, persecution or even oppression or anything like that. It's just sometimes things don't work out great and that makes it hard. But yeah, you've been up to anything fun at all.

Rob Paterson (01:26.828)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, you know, I don't know that our listeners necessarily know this. You know, you you live in the suburbs of a big metropolitan area in Columbus, Ohio, and I live out in the middle of nowhere. I think we've sort of referred to that sometimes, especially when you were coming up here and and helping kind of teach and lead the team of people who are communicating during my my medical. Yeah, have a radical, there you go.

Jason Allison (01:51.421)
It was a hippobatical.

Rob Paterson (01:55.886)
last year, but, I have a funny thing. So Saturday night, I'm like reading through my sermon and I literally look out the window. That's like, I don't know, two meters in front of my chair. And then another, you know, six feet on the railing of my deck is a raccoon standing on his hind feet, you know, eating bird seed out of the bird feeder. And I'm yelling at him like, Hey, you know,

He doesn't even care. He'd basically just like, and so I just thought, well, of course, cause I live on 20 acres, that's tied into thousands of acres. And you know, there's plenty of animals on my property. And so, so last night it's the middle of the night. I wake up at four o'clock this morning, not because I wanted to be up at four this morning, but I was excited about playing golf with some friends who were bailing on me because there was some rain in the forecast. I felt not only that God didn't like me, but my friends kind of were letting me down too.

And so I decided I just stepped outside and as I opened the door, I heard kind of some, you know, kerfuffle on my deck and I thought, is it another raccoon? It was a deer. There was literally a deer standing on the deck that wraps around my house and it ran off. And I, as I stood outside for a few minutes, it just was over beside my driveway, just kind of looking at me. I'm like, my, friends this morning.

when we met to talk about some other things, they were like, you know what, you can make deer hunting a lot simpler. Just open your door and they can come right on in and.

Jason Allison (03:31.421)
I don't think they'll walk right into your oven though. Yeah, yeah, yeah. well, our only excitement in the suburb is we have little baby bunnies around the backyard, which my grandkids who are upstairs now, you might hear the boom, boom, boom of them running around, but they were excited to see the baby bunnies just hopping around. yeah, well, yeah, well, I was thinking.

Rob Paterson (03:34.187)
good point.

Rob Paterson (03:54.412)
Nice. Bring him to my house. It's like the zoo.

Jason Allison (04:00.253)
You know, there's chicken tenders. Is there like bunny tenders? Could we just make little tiny bunny nuggets? I don't know. It is. It really is. So yeah. Well, okay. So enough about us and our and our wildlife stories in Ohio. But we do have a guest with us today who is probably bored silly after watching us for four and a half minutes prattle on about animal life. But we do have an amazing guest that I

Rob Paterson (04:06.446)
The rabbit's delicious. Yeah.

Rob Paterson (04:13.71)
You

Jason Allison (04:29.189)
just met for the first time, but I've read about and I'm excited to have a conversation with our new friend, Matt Arnett. Matt, welcome to the Church Talk podcast.

Matt (04:41.817)
It's great to join you guys. We're so grateful for the opportunity.

Jason Allison (04:45.979)
Yeah, well, Matt is the community pastor and director of business and mission and church on mission. I'm sorry, business on mission and church on mission for the bucket ministry, which is a nonprofit organization that that I like the way you're that's worded here. It says that works to provide the love of Jesus and clean water. Like, I just love those two things together. You know, I Jesus talks about, you know, being

Rob Paterson (05:09.783)
Hmm.

Jason Allison (05:15.325)
being there for those who are thirsty, right? And all that stuff. yet, and so to talk about sharing the love of Jesus while also providing clean water solutions, I just think is an amazing thing. Maybe, Matt, just so our listeners get a chance to know who you are and a little bit about you, I mean, maybe just tell us a little bit about your story and how you went from being a kid, did you grow up in Texas? I know you live in Texas now, but.

Rob Paterson (05:17.678)
Hmm

Matt (05:42.009)
Yeah, thanks, Jason. So I did. I grew up in West Texas and grew up in a great family. I always say I am incredibly grateful that I grew up in a home where Jesus's name was proclaimed and made much of every day. We went to church and were part of the church community. And from an early age, just

I loved the church, I loved being there, I loved being part of it. And at eight years old, had kind of gotten to a place where I saw people being baptized and had kind of read the Bible and heard the stories and just felt like...

I wanted Jesus to be the Lord and Savior of my life. And so I made that decision and really, again, just had a good experience. My family really loved the Lord, but we weren't in the church every single week. We weren't there all the time. But it kind of, as I got a little bit older, I kind of became the catalyst for

dragging my parents and making sure that we went. whenever I was a teenager, I went to a conference that, you know, I'd heard, been in places where I'd heard people, you know, give an opportunity to respond to the gospel, but I'd never heard of anyone giving an opportunity to respond to a call to ministry. That was a new concept for me. And so,

Rob Paterson (07:08.462)
Bye.

Matt (07:36.569)
I was in this arena and to be honest, I don't have real clear memories of that moment other than I remember sitting up in my seat and then all of a sudden I guess I'd walked down to the floor and was talking to a counselor about what it would look like to surrender my life to vocational ministry. And so I got back home and that was affirmed by my church, that was affirmed by my parents and

Rob Paterson (07:42.862)
Memories of that moment other than I remember sitting up on my feet and then all of a sudden I walked down to the floor and was talking to the counselor about what it looked like.

Matt (08:05.113)
To their credit, I'm so grateful when my mom tells the story. said, you know, we knew, God told us when you were born that he was going to use you in ministry, but they never put that on me. They never pressured me with that. And we're just so affirming once I got to that place. so at that time, I grew up in a small country church and, you know, my ideas of

know, ministry or ministry positions were the senior pastor, the music leader, the music pastor, and then the youth minister. And I have no musical abilities. And as an eighth grader, I felt like I was probably already more mature than my youth pastor. And so I just kind of was like, well, I guess I'm I guess I'm going to be a pastor. I'm assuming I'm going be a preacher. And and so

I ended up going to a Bible school and just really grateful for the time and the education there. And as so many of us do in Bible school, maybe the greatest gift that I came out of was I met my wife, Sarah. And so we got married and really just always thought that that would be my life in ministry, would be serving the local church.

maybe here in Texas, maybe somewhere else, but certainly, you know, I kind of always had the perspective that God planted me here and this is where I should grow and this is what I should do. And so that was my trajectory. I was involved with in ministry in several different churches in different contexts. And then ultimately had a moment where

Jason Allison (09:49.148)
Yeah.

Jason Allison (09:58.557)
you

Matt (09:59.479)
all of that ship kind of got rocked and experienced some pretty painful church hurt. Again, unfortunately, I don't know too many people that have worked in the church for too long that don't have a story like that. But just really, like I questioned so much about my identity, who I was, my calling, and left the position I was in and just really started seeking and wondering if

Jason Allison (10:02.182)
Hmm.

Rob Paterson (10:11.31)
Hmm.

Matt (10:29.385)
If pastor isn't on my business card, who am I? What did you know? What have I given my life to? What am I supposed to do? And I was I was dead set on moving into the next role in the next the next calling the next job. And and at the time you were talking about why does God hate me? I felt that in hindsight it was God's kindness. But in the moment it was, you know, I.

Rob Paterson (10:32.781)
Hmm.

Jason Allison (10:33.298)
Yeah.

Jason Allison (10:56.417)
yeah.

Matt (10:57.089)
I went through over 30 different job interview processes where I finished second. during the time I joke and say, churches were finding new and different ways not to hire me. And it just seemed like I was banging my head against the wall and ultimately ended up just taking a job to support my family in a secular.

Rob Paterson (11:04.206)
Mm.

Jason Allison (11:11.473)
Hahaha.

Matt (11:25.055)
environment and in that I had five co-workers that were people that would never ever show up at a church and they were going that every single one of them was going through major life crisis and over the course of 11 months I had the opportunity and the privilege to to be the pastor to these five men that desperately needed somebody to love them somebody to care for them.

Jason Allison (11:49.021)
Mm-hmm.

Matt (11:54.785)
And I got the opportunity to share the love and the hope of Christ and see God do some amazing things. And through that process, really, really realized that it didn't matter what was on my business card, that I was a pastor, that God had called me to that, God had equipped me to that. And he was sending me out to do that. And I remember having this moment where I was so frustrated.

Rob Paterson (12:10.958)
Hmm.

Matt (12:23.383)
in so many ways ashamed of working this, what I thought was a menial job. Here I am with a master's degree and all of these credentials and I'm working, I'm making $11 an hour and barely able to put food on my table. And I was crying out to God and just saying, God, I just feel like I've got so much more to give. why would you, like you've given me so much,

Rob Paterson (12:36.494)
Hahaha

Matt (12:53.369)
to, you know, I've spent so much time studying, I've spent, you know, so much time working on this and all, like, all I'm doing is ministering to these five guys. God, why would you do that? And then I had this moment and, you know, it's so humbling even, you know, thinking about those words coming out now, but realizing that that's exactly the God that I serve. Like, the God that I serve is exactly the God that would take someone

and send them out to a lost sheep that desperately needs a savior. And so God is absolutely the God that would derail and not that God was really trying to ruin my life or any of those sorts of things, but God certainly takes those opportunities and utilizes them. so fast forward a little bit, I ended up getting...

Jason Allison (13:27.207)
Yeah.

Rob Paterson (13:29.858)
Yeah.

Jason Allison (13:30.557)
Yeah.

Jason Allison (13:34.237)
Yeah.

Matt (13:49.769)
I was connected to this ministry called the Bucket Ministry that is a clean water ministry. And whenever I was serving in the church, at one point I was coordinated all the frontline ministry volunteers for our church. And I kept seeing that all of the really high capacity, really wonderful volunteers that I had were all getting connected to this water ministry that was going out and they were distributing these water filters.

they weren't just giving away clean water, they were using it as a tool to share the gospel. And as I heard them talking about how they took this filter and used that as an image of this dirty water that is hurting them, that is killing them, it's like something that we have in our lives that is hurting us, that is killing us. And just like these people who need clean water, they can take some of the dirt and the sticks and the debris

out of the water, but they can't remove the thing that's actually killing them. And how in our lives, there's nothing that we can do about the thing that's killing us, that's separating us from God. And then there's this filter, and this filter takes on the bacteria, the protozoans, all of the debris and the things that are harming them. It takes it on itself and it allows clean water to pass through. And in a very similar way,

Rob Paterson (14:56.834)
Mm.

Matt (15:14.041)
Jesus is willing to take on our sin, our brokenness and allow living water. And I just saw that I've been involved in ministry for a long time, used so many evangelism tools, but I'd never seen something that met such a physical need, but also communicated a deep truth so clearly. And so I ended up getting connected and serving with this ministry.

Jason Allison (15:36.817)
Yeah.

Rob Paterson (15:37.12)
Yeah.

Matt (15:42.541)
that was really just a bunch of business guys. And then I got to come on board as the pastor and serve in this role. And so I get to participate in sharing God's love through the gift of clean, safe drinking water.

Rob Paterson (15:42.872)
Matt.

Jason Allison (15:44.69)
Yeah.

Rob Paterson (15:53.56)
Hmm.

Rob Paterson (15:57.134)
That's that's that's so cool. You know, as you were you were talking about coming in second, you know, 30 times, I heard something recently that really resonated with me. And it's been true in seasons of transition in my life as well, where it was like, you know, did did God really need to have, you know, the the children of Israel roam in the desert for 40 years and, you know, have a whole generation die off? Well, no, but.

you know, at that point for them, because they'd been in Egypt, their identity was that of a slave. And if they hadn't healed from that, you know, they might've entered the promised land and just been all, they're too big and, you know, and, and behaved more like slaves as opposed to really, you know, stepping into what God had for them. And so it's cool how in those seasons where we are just like beside ourselves, you know, like, I think a lot of times God is doing a work to

for the thing that's next. as you were in that season and then entered into your role in the bucket ministry, talk a little bit about the impact the bucket ministries had since it was founded back in 2012.

Jason Allison (16:54.403)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Allison (17:08.317)
Thank

Matt (17:10.295)
Yeah, no, that's such a good word. you know, again, God, I don't think God wastes moments. It's so easy for us to get caught up in them and fail to see what's truly going on. again, I would just, you know, God's kindness in retrospect. I think if I had jumped into any of those roles, you know, much like the people of Israel, I think I would have repeated some of the same

some of the same mistakes that I was making and dealt with some of the same things. so, yeah, it has been such an eye-opening opportunity. Like I said, the mission of the Bucket Ministry is sharing God's love through the gift of clean, safe drinking water. And so this ministry really was birthed on the Amazon River. Our founder, Chris Beth, went on a mission trip with his daughter where he went reluctantly. It wasn't even...

He was basically going to be dad and to bring his daughter home. And in the midst of that, he was made aware of not just people's need for the gospel, but this global water crisis that to that point he really wasn't even aware of. And many of us aren't. I would probably say I would have fallen in that same category before I was working with this ministry that, you know, according to the World Health Organization, there are over 785 million people in the world that don't have access to clean water.

Rob Paterson (18:37.239)
Hmph.

Matt (18:37.313)
And so to try to put that in perspective, that the United States of America has about 340 million people in it. So more than twice the whole population of the United States. If when they wake up in the morning, they don't know where their next drink of clean water is going to come from. so so there's this incredible need. There are so many people that that need access to clean water.

And yet that number of 785 million pales in comparison to the number of people that have not heard the gospel, that have not been transformed by the love of God. And so the bucket ministry sees our opportunity and our calling as going into places that don't have access to clean water. We use a very simple, sustainable water filter that connects to a

really any kind of receptacle, but a five gallon bucket is what we commonly use. And these filters are really affordable. They're really long lasting. So they're based on kidney dialysis technology for the scientific people. For those of us that are, there may be less knowledgeable of that. They've got the, it's a absolute 0.1 micron.

So basically it's got really small tubes in it with even smaller holes in it that take everything at the bacterial level and larger out of the water and allows for the clean water to pass through. And then once the water has gone through it, in order to clean the filter, all you do is you take some of the clean water you've made and back flush it through the filter and that cleans it. And so we have people who receive these filters.

clean their filters daily and if they will sustain that practice, if they'll maintain that and care for their filters, these filters have been tested past a million gallons. And so for a family of 10 people, which is kind of a normal size of many in many of the places we serve, that's 20 plus years of clean water. And so we are able, our program is we provide a bucket, a filter.

Jason Allison (20:38.097)
Wow.

Rob Paterson (20:46.092)
Wow. For how much?

Matt (20:53.817)
anti-parasitic medicines for the whole family to help restore them to a baseline of health, a Bible in their language, and then we do at least three follow-ups with every single filter recipient to check on their physical health as well as continue to maintain and communicate about their spiritual health. And so on average around the world that costs us about $50 for a family.

Jason Allison (21:15.493)
Wow.

Rob Paterson (21:15.598)
That's awesome. Matt, how many people have received a filter?

Matt (21:20.313)
That's a that is a great question. I at this point, we have seen hundreds of thousands of filters go out. In the last year, we we had distributed over 40,000 filters, we just completed the largest project that we have completed to date, we finished in December. And, and in that, there were

81,777 filters distributed in a three square mile slum in Nairobi, Kenya called Kibera. And just in that area alone, there's over 408,000 people that live there. So over the last three years, that's where a lot of our energy has been, but we're in about 13 countries right now that we're working in different campaigns and different sizes.

Jason Allison (21:56.284)
Yeah.

Matt (22:16.653)
that are getting access to clean water. And again, the longevity of these filters is what's truly amazing because you think about 20 years of clean water, that's a generation, it's a childhood. So if you think about the difference between your child or your grandchild growing up drinking water that's making them sick, that's harming them versus growing up with a filtered water that would give them

Rob Paterson (22:28.952)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Allison (22:29.774)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Allison (22:41.179)
Mm-hmm.

Matt (22:46.305)
life. And the good thing about these filters is our model of ministry is that we distribute home to home. Every household gets a filter and our strategy for doing that is because that again buys us the relational opportunity. But the amazing thing about these filters is that they'll yield 350 to 500 gallons of water a day. So that's way more water than a family needs. And so in many places, in many cases, we distribute filters.

to people that then go and filter and share water with their neighbors, with their community, with others. They go back to the villages that they're from or they'll take them to their families. And so while metrics and numbers are incredibly important and we use those, it's hard for us to gauge really the overall number of people that are being served because of the opportunity that these filters provide.

Jason Allison (23:20.029)
Hmm.

Jason Allison (23:41.799)
Yeah, I'm just curious what kind of obstacles do you face when when trying to distribute these filters like I'm just thinking and I'm projecting because I don't know. I haven't been on any trips distributing water filters, but you know, I can just see people very leery. Number one of it being being worried. What if it doesn't work? You know, like you're building it up. And I mean, obviously until they see it work and it's really hard to prove.

that the water is clean in a place where you don't have a laboratory to show all the, you know, like basically somebody's got to drink this water that just went through the filter, you know, to show that it's okay. But then I'm also thinking, you know, I'm sure people that you're dealing with have seen people come through peddling these type things and it, know, there's always a catch and, and, and that catch

Rob Paterson (24:13.816)
Hmm.

Jason Allison (24:37.925)
sometimes is Jesus. You know, I mean, like you got to follow Jesus if you want clean water. And then is it really following Jesus? Like, I'm just curious, what kind of things have you guys run into and how have you worked around or through that?

Matt (24:51.321)
Yeah, you know, depending on the context, obviously there are many places in the world that have really been abused by Western organizations or, you know, different people coming in, you know, even as you said, in the name of Jesus. And so that, you know, at times and in certain locations, that is certainly an issue. You know, it's funny, whenever we go into a brand new village or a new place,

some of the reactions are much like you, much like we experience in church, whenever you get up to preach, there's some people that are there and they're engaged in listening, but there's always that group that are kind of in the back, and they've got their arms crossed and they're, yeah. And we call them the village elders. And so, we see that and it's oftentimes it's the men and it's,

Jason Allison (25:34.944)
We call those the deacons.

Jason Allison (25:43.538)
Yeah?

Matt (25:50.551)
It's so interesting, know, their arms are folded. They're skeptical. They're not there to listen. And so we share and we show them. And so we take their local water and we'll put it in a clear bucket where they see it. And to them, it just looks like water. To you or to me, we would never touch it. We would never drink it. We wouldn't give anybody that we liked, you we wouldn't have them drink it.

But for them, it's just Tuesday. so whenever the water though passes through the filter and it hits the cup and it's clear, for so many people, I mean, that's a miracle. For so many of these people outside of maybe rainwater, they've never experienced or seen clear water. And nobody that we serve,

Rob Paterson (26:20.974)
Hmm.

Matt (26:44.575)
is unaware of their water situation. Everybody understands, you know, there's so many of these places like in the urban slums where they will dehydrate themselves as much as possible because they understand that the water they're drinking is giving them worms, it's giving them parasites, it's harming them. They also know that water is essential for life. And so if they don't drink something, they will die. If they drinks too much of their water, they will die. And so this water coming through and being clear

is a miracle. And so when they see the water come through the filter, the hands, you know, the arms go down and you see people lean in. know, Jason, I'm pretty sure at that point, like you could sell them a timeshare and they would buy it. But we're not doing that. We're getting to tell them about the love of Jesus and again share the gospel. And, you know, something that's so central and so core to what we do is we make it very, very clear that

Jason Allison (27:15.131)
Yeah.

Matt (27:43.553)
The two terms and conditions that we put on receipt of a filter is that they promise they're going to take the filter and use it and take care of it, that they'll clean it. And then the second part is that they'll let us come and visit them. They'll let us check in on them, make sure that the water's improving their health, that they're seeing transformation. If they're having issues with their filter getting clogged, we can check on all of those things. And so that's all they have to agree to. And whenever we share...

Rob Paterson (28:07.662)
Hmm.

Matt (28:11.785)
filters, we talk to them and we'll say, look, we have two gifts for you today, and you can receive either or both of them, but it's not dependent upon, one is not dependent upon the others. So take the filter regardless of your interest in the gospel, but we'll tell you that we have shared these filters all around the world and have testimonies from people all around the world that have received the filter, that have received the gospel, and

And I can tell you story after story of people that have come up to me and told me, we're so grateful for the water, but what we're really grateful for is that you shared the love of Christ with us. The water changed my life, but Jesus saved my life.

Jason Allison (28:47.453)
Hmm.

Rob Paterson (28:52.11)
Hmm.

Rob Paterson (28:56.268)
Yeah, that's good. It's sort of like, you know, the Bible tells us, know, doesn't what if you just say, go be warm and well fed, but do nothing, you know, to meet people's actual physical need. You know, Matt, as as you're talking, I'm thinking to myself as sort of the, you know, white American who has this great product, this great, as you said, tool, right, this great technology be really easy.

You know, as word spreads for people to go, yeah, they're awesome. And you know, you guys, you know, go in and are the great white hope of the world. But I suspect, you know, it's not you that's showing up and doing, you know, follow up visits with people who receive filters. So talk a little bit about that. And why is it like, how do you work with local pastors and ministries and why is that so like mission critical?

Matt (29:48.355)
Thank you for that question. That's so good. Yeah, so we are at the core of our theology of mission is this idea of neighbors serving neighbors. And so in all of the places that we work, we have a team of local indigenous missionaries and pastors that are doing the work. And so while people from America, you know, will travel and visit and,

be part of what's going on. The thing that we are constantly telling our teams is that your job this week on this trip is to be the encourager. It's to be Barnabas. We want hugs and high fives. We're not looking for you to be the hands and feet. And there's so many reasons for that. The work can continue to happen. The neighbors understand the needs of

each other. And also something incredible has happened. You know, in the slum that I mentioned in Kenya and Kibera, we started out with with one guy and then we had three guys and then that team grew to 14 and then 60 and then it was over 100 of supported full time missionaries. But the after, know, after the first guy who was local to Nairobi, but

Everyone past that were residents of the slum. They were recipients of water filters. Many of them were people who came to faith during that time and were discipled by local churches, discipled by missionaries on our team. And God raised them up and called them to serve on this team. And so they have the experience of that, but also the fruit of discipleship is actually working itself out even among our

teams of missionaries. And so I realized somewhere along the way that, you know, as much as we were seeking to share God's love and to preach the gospel, unintentionally, we kind of created this missionary trade school there in Nairobi where people were being raised up and discipled to go out. And now we've seen at this point where people have left the team and gone to

Jason Allison (32:01.852)
Hmm.

Matt (32:12.387)
you know, go get further education or go to plant churches or go to start other mission work, or we've even been able to send them out into other fields to lead new projects in other places. And so the the the organization and the vision might still come from the United States, but day to day and the work that's happening is completely led by, you know, in Kenyans and Kenya, it's Kenyans in Mexico, it's Mexicans.

Jason Allison (32:39.228)
Yeah.

Matt (32:41.995)
In Nigeria, it's Nigerians. And there's so many good reasons and fruit that come from that.

Jason Allison (32:48.445)
Yeah, you know, so one thing I've been working on a ton lately is working with churches and talking about the difference between, you know, teaching people more information and training up disciples, because that can be two very different things. And so as you're talking, that just got me thinking as a local pastor, often, you know, we want to do

something good we want to, you know, we want to help people. But in what you're doing, it's not just helping people get water, like, and it's not even just helping a few people come to know Jesus, you're you're actually training people on how to continue to go out and share the good news to be witnesses. And that's something where I think as local pastors, we

We want to keep that in the professional realm. But I mean, we don't always do it on purpose, but it kind of is like, well, you we know the best way because like you said, I've got that seminary degree. I've done the study. I've you know, I know the right answers. And so, you know, as a local church pastor, I hope if you're listening to this, you hear this isn't about, here's an opportunity. You know, we're not peddling the bucket ministry like.

Hey, you should go do this because it's really good. It is, and you should, but that's not the point. What I want people to hear in this is, you know, what they're doing is something that we can do at home. We don't need clean water here, but we need to train disciples. And so, you know, I love the way you said this multiple times, but the water filter is a tool and we use this tool for clean water and for an entry way to talk about Jesus.

Matt (34:27.193)
Hmm.

Jason Allison (34:39.965)
And I wonder what kind of tools our churches are developing and using in their context to bring clean water, to bring the good news. And so I love that. And do you have like a system or a process or do you, mean, how do you train up these new indigenous leaders, right? I mean, who are using the filter there? Obviously they know a lot about it.

What are there? there any things that you guys do there that maybe could translate to? Because I mean, the thing about missions, my goal is always to learn from them. You know, like if I can learn something that could help here, I'm I am all ears. You have any thoughts on that?

Matt (35:17.145)
Mm.

Matt (35:25.015)
Yeah. So, you know, I think it's it is an interesting topic because I think, you know, so there there are challenges every day that like in the places we serve where there's extreme poverty, there are challenges that that the people there face that are that are unique and they're not something I've ever I've ever dealt with. When I woke up this morning, I I knew that

I've got three boys under the age of 10. I wasn't worried about what they would drink today or if they would eat. But there are challenges that we face that are unique to the places we serve and the places I serve. There's no mental health crisis going on in the slums of Africa. There's no sexuality crisis happening in the churches that

that we serve in Africa. And so there, like to your point, there are some things that we have that we can give and share. And then there's some things that we really need to be students and observe and learn. And one of these, I do think, is this kind of this divide between evangelism and discipleship. And, you know, I just moved offices and as I was putting my books up,

Jason Allison (36:38.333)
Mm.

Matt (36:51.191)
I've got an evangelism and mission section. I've got a spiritual formation and discipleship section in my books. And I think, in the church, we have looked at it this way. Evangelism is outward focused ministry and it's got its own budget. It's got its own way of, the way that we engage those people out there that we're trying to bring this mission to. Discipleship is an inward focused,

ministry where we have these formation classes and these tools and this knowledge-based equipping that we're having, that it's got its own budget and we've siloed it in our churches. And so we might teach a class on evangelism and have 50 people show up. And then we try to go out and do evangelism and nobody shows up. And so there's this gap between these two things. And yet that's something that's not as

Jason Allison (37:41.233)
Yeah.

Rob Paterson (37:41.582)
Hmm.

Matt (37:49.411)
prevalent in other places in the world. And in fact, I'm probably going to get this wrong. think it was Dallas Willard that was talking about this idea of evangelism, discipleship. And he actually called evangelism, he labeled it as pre-conversion discipleship. Evangelism is what we do with people that haven't.

Jason Allison (38:12.647)
Mm-hmm.

Matt (38:16.857)
haven't committed themselves to being disciples yet. But one of the things that we're seeking to do in the bucket ministry is to have a more holistic view of mission, a more integral view of mission where, you know, whenever we started and whenever I started, I had three buckets. I had the water, the help, the social impact. I had the gospel, the evangelism, and then I had discipleship, what we did with people afterwards. And the problem with that is

You can scale, you know, with systems and processes, we can serve more people. We can, you know, we can give out more filters. We can grow teams. We can be faster. With proclamation of the gospel, you can scale that to some extent. You can put more people in a room. You can have ways of going about and proclaiming the gospel to more people. Discipleship, by definition, is inefficient. It doesn't scale.

Jason Allison (39:12.871)
Thank

Rob Paterson (39:13.644)
Mm-hmm

Matt (39:15.065)
It's really time consuming. And so as we were looking at this and thinking, man, we're serving more people with water, more people are giving their lives to Christ. How do we disciple more people? One of the things that I've realized is by keeping those three things separate, I was doing a disservice to all of the work. Instead, I need to ask the question, okay, all of this is part of our theology of mission. All of it is part of discipleship. Whether I'm...

showing the love of Jesus through a water filter and impacting their social health, whether I'm proclaiming the good news of the gospel or whether I'm actively engaged in walking with people and making disciples, those are all part of what God is doing in the world. And I think as local churches, that's something that we have the opportunity to be challenged with and ask those questions of, what is it, you know, rather than siloing it and saying, you know,

I have external focused ministry, I have internal focused ministry. Like what does it look like to be the church and to challenge our people to see how, know, that Henry Blackby quote, watch and see where God is working and join him in his work. What does it look like for me to see, yeah, God is doing something in this context. And I have an opportunity to join and be part of that. We have an opportunity in our community. There's a need that are, you know, in our schools.

Jason Allison (40:27.346)
Yeah.

Matt (40:39.981)
that the church could step in and support. There's a need in the pregnancy resource centers that our church could be. There's a need among the poor where the church could step in and be the hands and feet of Jesus.

Jason Allison (40:51.227)
Yeah, but wait a minute, Matt, wait, wait, wait. But what if other people are involved in that and we don't have the same theology? Like, can we still work? I mean, come on. Like, don't we all have to like, we can't work with anyone who's different, can we?

Matt (41:05.728)
Yeah, well, and I won't answer that. I'll let Jesus answer that. And, you know, the harshest words Jesus had were for the religious people that were unable to see past themselves to see what God was doing. you know, we make light of it, but in all kidding aside, it is really hard. And one of the bigger challenges that I face, I mean, we partner with what we...

Jason Allison (41:10.111)
Hahaha!

Rob Paterson (41:10.317)
Yeah.

Jason Allison (41:17.234)
Yeah.

Matt (41:33.123)
terminology we use is local like-minded churches. What in the world is a like-minded church? know, and everybody that I ask, you know, whenever I talk to the Presbyterians, they want to know if we're Presbyterian enough. Whenever I talk to the Baptists, they want to know if we're Baptist enough. And it is serious. It is hard. It is important. And also, God is the one that's working to redeem and to restore the world.

Rob Paterson (41:39.158)
Right.

Matt (42:02.603)
And we are part of being part of God's mission and being part of the church, the big C church, not my denomination, not my flavor, is that God is using that. And it's hard at times because sometimes I look around even in my own town and I see all these different churches with different denominations on the sign. And yet there's different people showing up to those places who need to hear the gospel, who need to experience the love of God. And some of them

Jason Allison (42:30.109)
Yeah.

Matt (42:32.557)
you know, the folks in the smaller churches maybe would never show up to the bigger church. you know, the liturgical churches are attracting people that are looking for a structure that might not be there in the Bible churches or the main, you know, some of these other churches. And so it is complex and it is important. And I do think doctrine matters, theology matters. But what are the main things?

Rob Paterson (42:37.56)
Yeah.

Jason Allison (42:51.143)
Yeah.

Matt (43:01.003)
If we can agree on those, can we have the grace with each other and with ourselves to see that, you know, just because and I'll be honest with you, every single church I visited in Kenya made me uncomfortable in some way or another. You know, the music was too loud. The services were too long. You know, the things that they were saying. And yet the spirit is moving. People's lives are being transformed.

Rob Paterson (43:01.143)
Yeah, that's so good.

Jason Allison (43:03.239)
Yeah.

Matt (43:28.739)
That is God's church, it's not Matt's church.

Rob Paterson (43:31.854)
That's so good, Matt. So we're basically out of time, but I got a question I got to ask. so I'm, you know, I, I always hear this. I'm sure you do too. You know, everybody talks about, we need more people. Like it's always the, what the problem is, you know, and, but you guys have found like this simple tool that changes people's lives physically and potentially spiritually, you know, maybe just take 30 seconds and, like what

You know, what word of encouragement would you give to pastors or church leaders who are listening into this podcast to man? It seems like they're just always overwhelmed with the limitations and the negatives. Like what word of encouragement would you give them? And then give us another 30 seconds to tell people, you know, how, if they wanted to personally or their church wanted to be a part of the bucket ministry, what does that look like?

Matt (44:24.451)
Yeah, so limits are real. And in fact, I'd say limits are by design. God worked six days and on the seventh, he rested and he created us to experience limits. And yet God is not limited. The mission of God is not limited. And so if we see ourselves not as the main character of the story, but as active participants in the mission of God, then it frees us up to not do everything, to not be perfect, to not have all the answers, but really just to be faithful.

Jason Allison (44:41.756)
you

Matt (44:54.039)
And so I think as people of God, as the ministers that God has called us to be, if we can just live into that truth and experience that, you know, and really just seek to grow where we're planted, to be who it is that God has given us the opportunity to be, to be faithful in those things, be faithful in those small things, He'll give us opportunities to do even greater. And so it is hard.

Jason Allison (45:09.117)
you

Matt (45:21.855)
And it is hard work, it's not for the faint of heart. And yet, I believe that God will give us joy and hope and love and all of these greater things if we'll be faithful in that. And so, the Bucket Ministry is, you know, we're easy to find. Just the website is thebucketministry.org.

You can find us on social media under the Bucket Ministry as well as YouTube and other places. And we love partnering with churches. We love doing children's ministry programs, giving you opportunities to partner. can fundraise and help give clean water, but you can also use this as a tool to share the gospel in your own community and among your own people.

We have a kids club program that we do that we love again just connecting with churches. We believe the local churches God's plan to reach the nations. That's places that need clean water. That's here at home as well. And so we'd love the opportunity to connect and to hear from you and partner. We do church mission trips. We can help provide all of the logistics if you're in a church where you don't have a missions.

person that wants to do all of that coordinating and logistics, but you still have people that want to go. We can help do all those logistics for you and just help get you to the field.

Jason Allison (46:42.813)
Well, Matt, we really do appreciate your time and sharing with us, you know, the bucket ministry and what's going on. you know, we look forward to hearing more and more reports about just the good things that are happening. And if there are any churches that want to connect with you, I will put the website in the show notes and such. you know, we would love to hear stories from our from the pastors and listeners that, hey, this is this was an opportunity where

We got to not only give this village, this place clean water solutions, we got to give them an introduction to Jesus. And so thank you for your work and all that you're doing. We appreciate you. And to our listeners, thank you so much for giving us some more time this week to just think about the church, think about what it is to share Jesus with people, what it is to use whatever, as God told Moses, what's in your hand.

And so what is in your hand that you can use as a tool to share? Have an amazing week. We love you and we'd love to hear from you. So reach out to us and let us know what's going on in your neck of the woods. Have a great day.

Rob Paterson (47:40.13)
You