Christmas With Church Talk!

In this Christmas special episode of the Church Talk podcast, hosts Jason, Rob, and Courtney discuss their holiday plans, family traditions, and the challenges that come with the Christmas season. They share personal anecdotes about their experiences, reflect on the meaning of Christmas, and offer advice for navigating the busy holiday period. The conversation also touches on the importance of community, setting goals for the new year, and creating meaningful traditions that celebrate family and faith.

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Transcript

Jason Allison (00:01.098)
Hey everybody. Welcome back to the church talk podcast with Rob and Courtney and myself, Jason. We are so glad that you have joined us. This is just so you know, the Christmas episode and because you know, we like to make it really complicated. we are actually using a brand new format medium. I don't know platform. That's the word I'm looking for. Software. Yes.

Rob Paterson (00:27.118)
software.

Jason Allison (00:30.4)
that we have never tried before. if this is terrible, you'll never actually hear it. So I don't know why I'm worried about it. anyway, yeah. Hey, welcome. Merry Christmas to everybody. Christmas is this week and we thought we'd just do a little recording and talk about Christmas. you know, Rob, just so you know, Christmas is the time where we celebrate Jesus being born.

Courtney (00:55.981)
Rob didn't know that.

Rob Paterson (00:56.184)
Why was I the target of that joke? It makes no sense to me.

Jason Allison (00:58.651)
Hahaha!

Well, mean, Courtney, I didn't want to destroy her belief in Santa Claus or anything yet. So.

Courtney (01:07.639)
Yes, yes. He was being sensitive to the lady in the room.

Rob Paterson (01:10.788)
So you talking to me Courtney like had ear muffs, couldn't hear that.

Jason Allison (01:15.274)
Right, exactly. If I'm not talking to her, she can't hear me, right? Isn't that how this works? Yeah, okay. That's what I thought. So anyway, hey, Merry Christmas, guys. What are you, are you doing anything exciting to celebrate? We gotta start there.

Rob Paterson (01:19.842)
Yes, yes.

Rob Paterson (01:30.98)
Courtney, you go first.

Courtney (01:32.341)
good. Well it depends on what you call exciting. We'll be heading home to visit family, you know, so insert family jokes here. But yes, it always is exciting to go home and do fun things.

Jason Allison (01:37.908)
Is this in Alabama?

Jason Allison (01:43.724)
Is this Alabama home? Like, okay, sweet home Alabama.

Courtney (01:46.389)
Alabama home, yes, yeah. Sweet home, Alabama, yeah. Both of our families live in the same city, so going home for both of us means going to visit both families, which is nice that they live in the same city, so you never have to do the like trade-off major holidays thing. You get to see everybody. Yeah.

Jason Allison (02:04.512)
Nice. That is nice. Cool. Rob, I know you're not going back to Canada.

Rob Paterson (02:11.043)
You know, we...

Well, that's actually a funny thing. So we have, you know, we have a service gathering tonight from one of our Christmas ones and then three tomorrow, two earlier, and then one candlelight at 11 on Christmas Eve, 11 PM, just as a way to kind of get us into the Christmas day, which will be super cool.

Then we really don't have anything, you know, planned after that other than recovery and kind of a week with the boys. never ever, ever preach the week after Christmas just because, that becomes kind of like a family time. But you know, in response to your sort of accusation that I wasn't going to be in Canada, one of the things that we discussed was as a potential, outing for kind of that week between Christmas and New Year's.

is, you know, it's only about, you know, it's less than four hours to get up to the border at Buffalo. And there's a restaurant in Canada that I grew up eating at and my family loves it. It's called Harvey's. Their slogan is Harvey's makes a hamburger a beautiful thing. And their hamburgers are just, I mean,

Probably a good percentage of it's nostalgia, right? Cause like I eat one and I think of growing up with my kids and my childhood and whatever. so we have discussed taking a day and driving up crossing the border to eat a Harvey's hamburger and then come back. So that may or may not be something that we do.

Jason Allison (03:59.124)
Well, I hope you do it. Just I mean, why not? It's a story. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I know. We're we'll have the kids at the house Christmas morning. So that'll be nice. And hanging out at church here at press will do a Christmas Eve service. We just do one at five o'clock and cram everybody in and then we're done. We don't do church the next Sunday or anything. We just say, you know what? Go be with family. Relax.

Rob Paterson (04:03.309)
Why not,

Jason Allison (04:27.926)
we'll start things off first of the year. So I may disappear into some Canadian wilderness and just never come back.

Jason Allison (04:39.914)
Yeah, there's my plan. Actually, I will probably drive to Kentucky and pick up my mom and bring her back up for a few days just so she can hang out with us. But that'll be fun. So yeah. All right. So a couple of quick things I got to know. Actually, really Courtney, are you OK? Because you look frozen. Yeah, I'm pretty sure she's frozen. And that and it's it's like a silly smile, frozen, which is awesome. So this.

Rob Paterson (04:50.264)
Yeah, that's cool.

Rob Paterson (05:02.116)
Ha!

Rob Paterson (05:08.354)
That is great.

Jason Allison (05:09.868)
This will be interesting because I don't know what to do on Zoom. At least I knew what to do, but I don't know what to do with Riverside.

Rob Paterson (05:17.24)
Hey, we are now back to the Church Talk podcast with just Rob and Jason for this special holiday edition. Apparently God and Chrome and the Riverside app did not want Courtney to be a major part of this episode.

Jason Allison (05:28.972)
Apparently.

I guess not. So I don't know if I'm supposed to stop it and restart it or what, but you know what? This is why we try new things. That way we can see what's going on. Maybe she'll text us and let us know. Yeah. her power went off. She'll be back in a second. Wow. That's crazy. I mean, yeah. least lightning didn't strike her again. I mean, yeah. So Rob.

Rob Paterson (05:41.058)
Yeah. Merry Christmas to all.

Rob Paterson (05:49.4)
Huh. Well, right.

Rob Paterson (05:56.516)
Hehehehehe

Jason Allison (05:57.694)
What is your favorite thing at Christmas? mean, first of all, just because I know you love family, but what's really favorite? Not ministry, you don't have to be spiritual on this.

Rob Paterson (06:10.028)
You know, I would say, and so it's going to be a tweener answer, you know, but it's, and we typically, this year's a little bit different just because of the focus of our teaching series this month, which is all about contentment. we, we really felt like it would be inconsistent to do our typical Christmas with like a huge set and you know, like, and then like preach contentment when we're like peddling.

you know, experiences type of a thing. So this month are set as simple and like the messages are just different. intentionally, you know, we really want to focus on not, just simplicity in general, but even you think of the difficulty and the simplicity and the Christmas story, right? And even in the end of Jesus life, it wasn't flashy. And even the things that we think about around Christmas that are, I mean, Mary and Joseph and Jesus didn't get to see or experience those things.

personally, those were just sort of generally true, you know? But for me, it's not like all the people and kind of the high energy experiences. It's the 11 o'clock candlelight telling of the Christmas story that we do. People love that. People show up with their kids who doze off. know, some people show up in pajamas. And it's just a really, you know, all the work's been done.

We have this last hour that we're just gonna be singing songs and reflecting. I remember when Liam was like one year old and just as a little one year old holding that candle and just smiling and so happy to be there and have that experience. So that's just always a very warm, magical feeling moment for me in my year. then that kicks off.

Jason Allison (08:01.824)
Yeah.

Rob Paterson (08:06.718)
know, weeks of largely ignoring my family because we've just been busy. And it kind of kicks off a week of just being able to hang out and do what we want as a family, which is also a good gift. those are really the things I always think about.

Jason Allison (08:20.49)
Yeah. Yeah, no, I love that. think you and I are a little bit alike in that. You know, just the the week after, just be with your family as much as possible. You know, just enjoy, relax. I try not to make it too hectic and crazy. But, you know, sometimes when you got to go visit other family members, yeah, it's a little bit of travel, whatever. But we try to try to stay focused on just reconnecting and enjoying life.

Yeah.

Rob Paterson (08:51.352)
You know, and I would add to that, it's interesting and you're in a unique season too with kind of the age of your girls. So it's different for you than it was when they were both home and young and all that sort of stuff. But for us, we have Liam who just turned 11. We actually celebrated his birthday last Friday, which was cool. We spent like the whole day down in Columbus with him.

Jason Allison (09:05.306)
yeah.

Jason Allison (09:20.704)
Yeah, thanks. Thanks for calling me. I saw you went to Chewy's.

Rob Paterson (09:20.863)
And

Yeah, well you could have come, but every time I call you to say, hey, we're in Columbus, let's do something, you're always busy. I, unless it's Cabela's, then you're magically available. And we didn't go there that day. But, you know, Bethany and I, we, you know, did a whole bunch of stuff all day long. We went to a super late movie and ended after midnight. So we didn't get home till like 1 30 in the morning, which was, which was crazy. And, anyway, you know, Liam has his ears in on his iPad and then dozed off.

Courtney (09:32.663)
Thanks

Jason Allison (09:35.499)
Yeah

Rob Paterson (09:53.868)
on the way home that Bethany and I were just reflecting how, you know, infrequently, cause we're all so busy that we just take a whole day as a family and, and hang out, do stuff. And how now when we do that, most of the time, Christopher's not with us cause he's, you know, off at school and doing kind of his thing. And even though Liam's 11 and has a number of years left, I just think to myself,

Jason Allison (10:12.534)
Right?

Rob Paterson (10:22.892)
we're going to blink and he's going to be out and gone too. So, you know, it was just sort of one of those momentary reminders of, let's spend as much time as we possibly can together as a family.

Jason Allison (10:37.77)
Yeah, yeah, no, I love it. Yeah, that's kind of I'm in the same boat of every minute that I get to be with the kids. yeah, just yesterday we actually may see my 21 year old, my youngest. She had texted a couple of days ago and said, hey, do you guys want to go see Wicked with us? Which she had already seen at once, but she wanted to see it again. And I think she wanted dad to pay for it. So.

But yeah, so we met them and of course, then she walked over to the kiosk where they ordered popcorn and a drink. And so she typed it all in and then all of them just stepped back and looked at me like, okay, pay. So we did. Yes, Maisie has mastered those, it's still wonderful. So yeah.

Rob Paterson (11:24.196)
Uhhh... Uhhh...

Courtney (11:24.307)
As an adult child, I'm familiar with using those kinds of techniques.

Jason Allison (11:36.008)
I definitely appreciate that. So what do you think, and I'm just curious and Courtney, I know your internet connection is getting weird because power went out and so everything's resetting, so what do you think is the most challenging aspect, especially as pastors of kind of dealing with the Advent season? I know for me, I just really struggle with getting stressed out.

getting, you know, just so much going on. And I was texting with, one of the other converge staff members this morning and I just said, you know, I'm on the Enneagram. I'm a three. And I said, I stress out at Christmas because I'm always worried that I didn't get the right gift or someone's going to be mad because I didn't get them something or I got them the wrong thing and they're not going to like me. And then I'm going to just fall apart because you know, that's like my thought process isn't logical. I mean,

I know Rob, if I don't get you the exact right gift, you really get all ticked off and cause you're just that way.

Rob Paterson (12:37.132)
Yes, that is 100 % true. And since you've never given me a Christmas gift, you know, I mean, I'm, have a lot of built up animosity.

Jason Allison (12:44.554)
I, yeah.

Well, can tell you both. can tell you both. There is something on the way to each of your respective houses. So see, there you go. That's right. I know. I know. So just keep your eyes open. Yeah, I made my list. I checked it twice and you guys were on the nice list. So there you go. But that was a

Courtney (12:49.291)
Yeah.

Courtney (12:56.852)
Nice!

So we need to be checking the mail.

Rob Paterson (13:07.268)
It's not like the Clark W. Griswold Jam or Jelly of the Month club, is it?

Jason Allison (13:15.276)
I am not going to answer until you see what it is. But I don't as a pastor, as a three on the Enneagram, I often I just I got really grinchy around Christmas because I was just afraid people were going to be mad at me. And then I couldn't do enough to make it all right. And I know that's not a healthy way to live. But I know a lot of pastors are people pleasers. That's kind of why we got into this business on some levels.

Rob Paterson (13:29.463)
Hmm.

Jason Allison (13:45.188)
And so I just wonder what other challenging aspects of the Advent season have you noticed or run into?

Rob Paterson (13:55.519)
Courtney, you or me?

Courtney (13:56.865)
Yeah, I think I'll go. I think that the challenging aspects are, you know, it's just that busyness because there's so many parties and Christmas parties. And then it's very easy to have something happening every single weekend leading up until Christmas. And then Christmas is just like a whole bunch of things. And then you're like you said, you're trying to actually buy gifts and do other things. And so it's kind of hard with the like party schedule, plus the like added responsibilities of wanting to actually love people well through gifts that it kind of slips away from you.

Those like three and a half weeks, four weeks between Thanksgiving and Christmas fly by in such a way that you feel like you're kind of like spinning and you haven't actually touched grass in a really long time. So I think that the speed with which Christmas comes often feels really destabilizing. And if you're doing that as a pastor, then you have all kinds of Christmas services or service projects or things like that that you do this time of year that you don't normally do the rest of the year, like Angel Tree.

Rob Paterson (14:32.119)
you

Rob Paterson (14:44.292)
Hmm.

Jason Allison (14:44.449)
Yeah.

Rob Paterson (14:51.204)
you

Courtney (14:56.095)
giving, things like that. So it just ends up becoming a really busy season that makes it hard to almost pause and, you know, reflect on Jesus as the reason for the season, you know, all those all those good things that we like to say.

Jason Allison (15:10.858)
Yeah, no, that's good. That's good. Rob?

Rob Paterson (15:13.668)
Yeah. So it's changed for me over time. mean, I think as a pastor, there is that sort of general sense that when people are facing things like sickness or poverty or, you know, whatever, whether it's personally or someone close to them, a strained relationship, a divorce.

You know, and, it really does make the season that, know, on the outside looks all pretty and happy. can, it can really be a difficult time for people. I think pastorally, you know, being aware of that and, and, providing a level of care, and connection for those people, matters. And, and, and so, you know, that can be a real challenge at this time of year. Like we all have already said when you're already super busy, but then there's those extra needs.

I would have said early on in my ministry, the thing that was the most challenging is being so busy, like right around like Christmas Eve. and then, you know, needing to travel, you know, five to 10 hours to get to either to Bethany's family or to my family, for a couple of days. And it was always like, I always felt like we were literally taking our lives in our hands. So trying to like force family stuff.

and all the just sort of job related stuff was really challenging. Probably now, if I was going to answer the question, I would say just kind of, and I already said it, but you know, almost the, ignore my family, especially that week leading up to Christmas, just because there's so many things to plan and prepare for and kind of finalize. We have so many walkthroughs and all that kind of stuff, but.

You know, that probably is, something that would be more challenging for someone who, you know, maybe is doing ministry as a second career. And so their family operated one way and now, man, I'm a pastor. so, cause honestly, my kids, this is all they've ever known. So it's totally normal to them. And, and it's not like we don't get our kids' presence and even sometimes really nice presence, but you know, Christmas has never been about.

Rob Paterson (17:29.164)
the presents for our kids. And so like even making sure we have all the presents and, and things and whatever's it's like, you know what, again, we kind of take care of that almost after Christmas, as opposed to really being super concerned with the perfect pretty experience for like that exact moment. so it's kind of normal in my family.

Jason Allison (17:48.01)
Yeah.

Jason Allison (17:53.3)
Yeah, which kind of leads into one other thing I just wanted to touch on is, you know, our listeners are, you know, leaders and pastors and, you know, just people who are connected to the church in a variety of ways. And I kind of alluded to this already, but I think we could elaborate a little more as you because if they're hearing this, it's probably either the day before Christmas Eve or Christmas Eve or, you know, like it's it's.

It's too late to give them any advice about how to celebrate Christmas. That ship sailed about a month ago if you're actually planning ahead or anything like that. But they've got a little window of time, of downtime. And I'm just curious, do you have any advice maybe that you would give them as they move into this? Maybe it's a couple of days, maybe it's a week, maybe it's two weeks, depending on where they're at.

Courtney (18:23.017)
if

Jason Allison (18:48.524)
I don't know, what kind of advice would you give them as they head into this semi downtime before the new year kicks in?

Rob Paterson (18:56.9)
Well, I have a simple one, but I think it's powerful for most of us. And I'll include myself in this category. You know, as human beings, we tend to be notorious procrastinators, right? Like where if we can come up with a good logical reason to wait, to start something that we should actually have started a week ago or, you know, should be starting today. we'll probably take advantage of that, right? It's like, I'll get to that.

And an example in my life is Jason. think I mentioned this last week, but, you know, I, I've, I've started this reset health reset and I didn't want to do it last week. Cause actually had two family members who had birthdays last week. And so we were celebrating birthdays and going out and do it. So that was a legit, like, I'm going to start this and I'm going to totally mess it up. So instead of starting it last Tuesday or Wednesday, I started it today, knowing that.

Christmas and New Year's were both going to fall within this 30 day reset window where my eating is very like focused and I got supplements and shakes and all kinds of things, right? So it would have been super easy to say, you know what, let's just wait until I get through New Year and start then. And I'm like, I'm literally only have two meals to really, you know, plan around Christmas and New Year's. I can do that.

I'm not going to wait another, however many weeks to start being a little bit more focused on being healthier and improving things. And I would say that exact same thing. It would be super easy to go, let's wait till the new year to focus. Cause we're just busy and we're doing family things or tell me now and then next Christmas I'll really do these things. So for whatever that is for you, whether it's...

you know, fixing a relationship that was broken, whether it's your fault or the other person's fault or whatever, whether that's prioritizing, you know, your kids or your family members in a way maybe that you haven't, or just taking some time to pause to do simple things like reading the Christmas story, praying, you know, doing some things that are going to build some more spiritual disciplines and muscles in your life. Don't wait, start today.

Jason Allison (21:19.372)
That's good. That's good. Courtney, what about you?

Courtney (21:22.135)
Well, my answer probably would be the exact opposite of Rob's, which is fine, because then you can choose whatever advice you want. But liturgically, if you guys know what kind of church I desire to plant, it's always a liturgical church. But this season of Advent is a season of waiting, so that's why historically in the church this was like a 40-day fasting period, just like Lent is a 40-day fasting period.

And it helps to like focus you on almsgiving, you know, cause this is always a time when everybody's seems more open to giving to the cause of the poor and cheerful giving and all that kind of stuff happens. And so if you kind of fast both like through meals, but also thinking simply in your life, then it helps you to be able to see other people's needs a little bit more. So you think more about almsgiving and fasting. And then the 12 days of Christmas came starting Christmas day.

Rob Paterson (22:00.316)
.

Courtney (22:14.325)
And it was actually like prohibited to fast after that. And it was like, this is just a time of feasting and just a time of enjoying family and friends and all those kinds of things. So, so Rob's like, don't wait to start your, you know, New Year's fast or your New Year's reset today. And I would say, actually think about the ways in which you're going to indulge in the next 12 days and things that you haven't really allowed yourself to do maybe all year long. You know, you've kind of.

allowed yourself to get busy with the rhythms of the church and things like that. But maybe like those things like, I don't know, maybe if you're in cold climates, you can't quite go golfing. But where I'm going, you could go golfing. Like if you haven't, you know, allowed yourself to get into your hobbies or things like that, allow yourself to do that. Yeah, I'm going to have a white Christmas, just a different kind of white Christmas, a white sand beach Christmas. so yeah, I would say allow yourself to do those things that feel like celebrations over the next 12 days.

Rob Paterson (23:08.068)
So, and I just want, I want to go on record here to everybody knows I was encouraging less procrastination and Courtney was encouraging procrastination. just FYI.

Jason Allison (23:08.874)
Yeah, that's good. That's good.

Courtney (23:21.887)
Yes, yes.

Jason Allison (23:24.926)
Yes, I still like Courtney's idea better.

Courtney (23:27.669)
Yeah.

Rob Paterson (23:28.964)
Everybody does. That's the problem.

Jason Allison (23:31.668)
Hahaha!

Yes. Well, and so one thing I've been thinking about a lot and Courtney, you made me think of this. I don't know whenever we mentioned this weeks, months ago during this time, like I'm trying to figure out ways to have some shared embodied, I think practices that that we can do together as a family, as a church, as you know, we're just incorporating more things that

Rob Paterson (23:52.644)
you

Jason Allison (24:02.27)
are not screen oriented necessarily, but they're more and Rob, you kind of alluded to this experience oriented. But then also it's not just for the fun of the experience, but also that shared embodied practice that engages, you know, the spiritual that that's going on all around us. And and I haven't figured out the answer to that. And I don't have any nice, neat little program that we're trying to sell here on how to do that over Christmas. But

I've just been really, I don't know, been contemplating that a lot lately. What does that look like in the different seasons of the year? Maybe it's Advent, maybe it's Lent, maybe, you know, summer, there's all the ordinary days if you're on the liturgical calendar. And so, I don't know, that's one thing I would challenge some of our listeners to think about. How do you actually take this time and create some of those practices? And maybe you have some, but how do you...

put a different spin on them so you understand the depth of what's happening. Yeah, no, those are great. Those are great. What about so, Courtney, I'm going to start with you because you're not actually like in the throes of leading the church and it's meeting every week and you've got all that stuff going on. But as you think about the beginning of a year and there's nothing magical about

Rob Paterson (25:02.99)
Mm.

Jason Allison (25:27.446)
January 1st as opposed to December 30th, you know, they're just there's still days but because there is a calendar demarcation When you think about kicking off the new year With a congregation with a community of believers. What are some things that come to mind and I'm not talking You know, we'll do an episode, you know next week about setting goals or strategies or thinking long-term but as you think about

Courtney (25:31.542)
Mm-hmm.

Rob Paterson (25:54.212)
you

Jason Allison (25:55.473)
starting the year, what are some ideas or thoughts that come to mind that you want to make sure you incorporate?

Courtney (26:01.535)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think especially for like the area that we are in that is, you know, largely post-Christian. think we've mentioned this before on our podcast, like 85 % of people in our area identify as, you know, not religious or not affiliated with any religion. And so a lot of that, whether it's traditional Christian holidays, like what we're talking about with the season of Advent or we've

been doing fasting together as like our Bible study and things like that. And so then we're gonna be talk, we talk about feasting just as much starting at Christmas and then also leading into New Year's. But there's this quote by this like scholar of religion, his name is Markaya Eliad, where he says that without regular rituals of loss and renewal, so that would be fasting and feasting, life flattens out and meaning drains from life such that, you know,

life itself no longer has meaning and meaning no longer has life, right? So then you end up with this cycle of meaningless deaths and then also meaningless lives. So we really acutely feel that, or the people that we are ministering among really acutely feel that, because they have pursued careers to the highest level that they can, and they're very dedicated to these things, but then they're constantly perplexed and like kind of...

Rob Paterson (27:02.295)
Mm.

Courtney (27:25.429)
have anxiety around this question of does it have any meaning? Like, why am I doing it? And so what we've found is these regular cycles of fasting and feasting allow them to kind of you know, evaluate and kind of take a toll on what they're doing and what really matters to them and to really consider how that works out in kind of a divine economy, even if like, you know, they're just now beginning to explore the Christian faith and things like that. So,

So as we're beginning the new year and thinking about feasting at the beginning of the new year, and that what this marks is kind of the incarnation of Jesus marks a new trajectory for all of humanity and all of creation that we then get to participate in. Like we want to really sit and reflect on what would that new trajectory look like for us this year? What are those areas of our life that we want to be transfigured by the incarnation, that we want, you know, Christ to bring new life into them and resurrect them from death to life?

So kind of looking at it in like that bigger picture, kind of how do we regain meaning in this life that kind of sometimes can feel meaningless? And I think especially at the end of the year, for a lot of people, it can be a time when that meaninglessness feels really acute because they might have some of those family wounds or they might feel disconnected from family or they're experiencing the holidays with the first time of the loss of a significant loved one.

And so as much as it can feel like it should be a time of feasting, it also is a time of being confronted with great loss. And so I think that inviting us to experience the incarnation as the transfiguration of all of the cosmos into this new resurrected life is like what we're trying to focus on this year.

Jason Allison (29:03.616)
Nice. Hey, Rob, you want to follow that?

Courtney (29:06.871)
you

Rob Paterson (29:08.856)
Nope, but I do have an answer to your question.

Jason Allison (29:09.452)
Okay.

Rob Paterson (29:13.764)
My mind's gonna mine's gonna seem a lot more, you know, low level. Down to earth down to earth. So yeah, one of the things that that I always try to do is create some like connection with the idea. And there's all sorts of great statistics out there right about I don't even remember like 82 % of people that that.

Jason Allison (29:21.228)
Let's call it down to earth. Yeah, that sounds good.

Rob Paterson (29:41.796)
make a new year's resolution or even have a goal. don't, don't follow through. And it's like, I don't know, two or three weeks into the year, most have given up already. So they're not even trying anymore. So I, I, I always like to create, at least maybe, maybe not hopelessness, but, sometimes a little bit of hopelessness is good from the standpoint of people going, man, yeah, I've tried to do this one thing.

Every year for the last 30 years and I've never ever done it. I've never followed through. I've never been successful, but at least some identification with that. and then to say, but you know, this year can be different. Like, so I want to, I always want people to understand, even though we haven't maybe been successful in the past personally, whatever your goals are, this year can be different. And then we always kind of introduce whatever our focus is this coming year.

we're gonna like the big umbrella idea is relationships. And by the end of the year, I would love more people to be committed to connecting with the masses, like showing up, you know, to church every week with, you know, be more committed to like small group type relationships and even have found one to three people that they can be like that Jesus with Peter, James and John, like we're gonna go that last 10%. We're gonna really be like iron sharpening iron, like.

And so I'd love to see people work on and experience victory and success in every relationship category that they have in life that is meaningful or matters. then, so in January, our series is called Forged. And we actually went a couple of weeks ago and filmed some footage with a knife maker who was like forging a knife just to kind of, and the quote that this kind of like pushing the series.

was something I heard at a church planting thing back in July where somebody said, and it was about community, they said, community is never found, it's always forged. And so the whole idea is the important things in life. We're not gonna just like get lucky and stumble upon them one day and go, ooh, I found great relationships or ooh, I found health or ooh, I'm now like a spiritual giant.

Rob Paterson (31:59.938)
You don't find those things as you kind of haphazardly stumble through life. You've got to put the work in, you've got to forge those things, their difficulties along the way. But when we stick with it, the outcome in the end is worth all of the effort. So that's kind of, you know, it's more specifically how we're going to do that this coming year.

Jason Allison (32:21.748)
No, I love that. that yeah, I remember. I don't know if you told me that quote or we were together when we heard it. But I remember that, you know, the community is not found. It's forged. That's and I think new patterns are forged. Right. And knew and it was Aristotle who said basically, you know, your habits are what you become. And so excellence is not a one time thing. It's forged over.

years even of of cultivating habits. And that has to start somewhere. You know, and so like you said, Courtney, starting the year off with this idea of, hey, this is a fresh start. Let's let's commit to doing this together. And and Rob saying, you know, let's forge a life worth living out of this together. I love that. I mean, I just feel like that's man, if we could have churches that were committed to those kind of of acts and of

Courtney (33:11.125)
Mm-hmm. All right.

Jason Allison (33:21.216)
mindsets. You know, we could see churches all over this country really displaying what community can look like, what true biblical community, what a light in the darkness can look like. to me, that would be that would just be such a huge win for the kingdom. And I would definitely celebrate that on multiple levels. So, guys, it's almost Christmas. What any thoughts before we go open presents?

Rob Paterson (33:51.812)
Well, I mean, I want to say something super poetic, like, you know, have a have a deep and meaningful silent night or whatever. But instead, let me tell you about like a gift plan that we have for our youngest Liam.

And he's kind of didn't just now getting to the age. We didn't think we were going to get Christopher a phone like until he was 35 or something like that. But then he got into junior high and you know, Bethany would get 87 calls a day from different friends phones. Cause there was this change in schedule or this after school activity that, you know, he didn't know about. And so it's like, it's just going to be way easier to get him a phone. And so I upgraded my phone, but my

My other phone, my old phone, still had a year on it. And so we're like, I'm gonna just upgrade mine and we're gonna hand mine down to him. And Bethany's like, let's wait till Christmas and make it a Christmas present. So I think the plan is to literally have nothing under our tree for Liam and maybe make Liam get the presents. Hey Liam, and there's another one for Christopher. there's, I mean.

I'm making it like our trees right here and then we have zero presence under it. So I'm making it sound like it's like a tree with like all sorts of presence, right? no, but you know, that's kind and it's like, Hey Liam, is there anything under there for you? And like literally have it look like Williams getting like zero for Christmas. And I'm like, that's really weird. Like I know there was, and then I'm going to maybe say, Hey, Hey Siri, you know, call Liam Patterson and have from somewhere hidden his phone ring.

And you know, kids that age, like that's one of the things that's always at the top. I could really use a phone. A phone would be helpful. A phone would be great. Can I have a, and now Siri's talking cause she heard me say, Hey Siri.

Courtney (35:46.646)
Yeah.

Jason Allison (35:51.69)
Yeah. Yes, that's cool. Yeah. I mean, I'm going to I'm going to let I'm going to tell Liam.

Courtney (35:54.337)
That would be so fun. Yeah.

Rob Paterson (35:56.696)
Yeah, so we're kind of excited about that.

Rob Paterson (36:03.011)
Nice.

Jason Allison (36:03.82)
because I won't see him. And I can't call him because he didn't have a phone.

Rob Paterson (36:09.112)
He does. He just doesn't know it yet.

Jason Allison (36:10.654)
Well, yeah, doesn't have it with him. Yes.

Courtney (36:14.195)
One of my favorite Christmas traditions has technically already happened for us, but it's kind of been a family tradition in our family to collect ornaments wherever we travel to throughout the year. So like my mom's Christmas tree has ornaments from like everywhere they've ever traveled or significant events. Like if you happen to be somewhere and you know, it's significant, then you have an ornament for that. And same with my grandmother. And so then Tim and I, if we ever travel anywhere, we always look for an ornament to give to one another.

from wherever we traveled. So then every single year when we put up our tree, it's kind of like we now have this kind of memory of everywhere we've been and we get to kind of reminisce over those trips that we've either taken together or apart from one another. And it's always an easy gift that if you're like traveling to say, I'm going to just find an ornament and, and get this for Courtney. Like you never has to worry about like, what's that special thing I'm going to get for Courtney. Cause he knows like, if I get her an ornament, she'll be happy, you know.

And so that's one of my favorite Christmas traditions is to look at and we'll put them in a special place all year long. Cause you know, you don't want to have to get out your like box of ornaments, just to put your ornaments up. So every year, new ornaments that we've collected from throughout the year, just in this one little box in our downstairs. So then we get to pull them out and just remember everywhere we've been this year. And it makes you feel like, wow, I actually did accomplish some things this year, you know, and we went some places and, some of them might've just been to the local.

Jason Allison (37:12.02)
Yeah

Jason Allison (37:15.52)
Yeah.

Rob Paterson (37:37.188)
Hmm.

Jason Allison (37:38.465)
Yeah.

Courtney (37:41.751)
Korean festival or something like that. But man, that was a lot of fun, you know? And so we get to see those moments throughout the year.

Rob Paterson (37:50.308)
Courtney, I have a question about that. Cause that's been, yeah, that's been like a thing in my family. My mom always bought us. wasn't like everywhere we traveled, but you know, every year everybody in the family would get like this year's ornament, which now means like our ornament box has way more ornaments that we can ever even possibly fit on our tree. So my question for you is the ornaments that you guys gathered like this year.

Jason Allison (37:50.58)
So, I mean, is your, yeah, go ahead, because I do too.

Courtney (38:04.323)
yeah.

Courtney (38:11.031)
Mm-hmm.

Courtney (38:17.153)
Mm-hmm.

Rob Paterson (38:17.518)
Do they get like priority placing on the tree? they make the tree, even though you might not have space or room for all the ornaments.

Courtney (38:25.815)
So what also ends up happening in the South where this tradition takes place is you end up eventually with multiple trees in your house. You know, you have like a kitchen tree and then like a four-year tree and then a living room tree. So we have, I know.

Rob Paterson (38:36.868)
You lost me.

Courtney (38:41.943)
So, my mom has three trees in her house. we have a kitchen tree now, but a kitchen tree and a living room tree. But that does mean that the new ornaments get front placement on the living room tree. Yeah. But the kitchen tree is small. It's like tiny. It was our old tree. Yeah.

Rob Paterson (38:58.596)
Huh. Yeah. I get grinchy about just one tree, so...

Jason Allison (38:59.777)
Well...

Jason Allison (39:05.312)
Yeah, I think Rob's more of a Grinch than me. And that's impressive. mean, yeah. Yeah. Well, what I love about that though, Courtney, and this is something I think even our listeners could catch on to is that way every year when you decorate the tree, you're reliving stories, right? It's not about the coolest, it's a story. And that is one thing I, you know, I'm not, I hate decorating the tree, but I love seeing the ornaments and remembering.

Rob Paterson (39:10.436)
That is saying something.

Courtney (39:23.169)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Allison (39:34.296)
You know, because we still have, you know, both my girls, their first Christmas picture is on there. They've got, all the different stuff like that. And I don't know. There's just there's something about the stories that go with it that I think it'd be cool if, you know, as we grow as a church that, you know, the Christmas tree that's in the lobby, if it became more of a, you know, a story tree where, you know, the ornaments mean something and all of a sudden it becomes a conversation piece.

Rob Paterson (40:02.56)
Mm.

Jason Allison (40:03.02)
every year as get that out. Anyway, well, we gotta wrap it up for today, but it is Christmas, so Merry Christmas to everyone and Rob and Courtney, Merry Christmas to you guys. As I said, there is actually something in the mail to you, so I can't wait to get your response and see what you think of it. But yeah, we appreciate our listeners and we do ask if you...

Rob Paterson (40:10.052)
you

Jason Allison (40:27.976)
If you would leave us review, share this podcast with people you love and people you hate. I guess that's fine too. We don't care. And because the more people that get to hear about, you know, developing as leaders, being part of a church being and leading a church. We think that's only good for the kingdom. And so we want to serve every way we can feel free to reach out to us. You know, Jason or Rob or Courtney at the church stock project.com. We would love to hear from you.

And we hope you have an amazing Christmas and we will be back next week and talking about starting off the year and reflecting on the year and all that fun stuff. Have a great Christmas. See you later.