United in Crisis with Daniel Geraci

In this episode of the Church Talk podcast, hosts Jason, Rob, and Courtney welcome Daniel Geraci, founder and CEO of United in Crisis. Daniel shares his journey of faith, the importance of church unity in crisis response, and the model of the Crisis Response Church Network. The conversation explores how churches can overcome denominational divides, the increasing frequency of disasters, and the vital role of prayer and relationships among pastors. Daniel emphasizes the need for collaboration in times of crisis and the unique opportunities that arise for the church to serve the community. In this conversation, Jason Allison discusses the evolving role of the church in community support, particularly during crises. He emphasizes the historical context of the church's involvement in social welfare and how modern networks can empower churches to respond effectively to community needs. The dialogue explores the relationship between government and church, the importance of local solutions, and the necessity of balancing immediate needs with the hope of the gospel.

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Transcript

Jason Allison
Well, welcome back to another episode of the Church Talk podcast with Rob and Courtney and Jason. Guys, it's I think it's been a couple of weeks since all three of us have been together. So it's good to see your beautiful faces. I know the, you know, the audio only people, which would be all of them, because I don't post these to YouTube yet, yet are wondering how beautiful these faces actually are. But, you know, they just look at social media. They'd find out, wouldn't they? Yeah, let's not encourage that.

Yeah, you know, Rob, you and I used to joke that we had had it we had faces for an audio only podcast. But you know, now that we've added Courtney, that's kind of insulting to her. I don't think I want to. I don't want to keep that tag going. Well, if they look at my social media, I think they'll find pictures from 10 years ago because I just really don't post. So yeah, I still look mostly the same, though, if you're wondering, you know, so it's really accurate. You need to post some pictures of Ted. That's that that would be.

the sale. you had Ted with his little tongue hanging out, then yeah, we exactly got see there's the tongue even that we got to post that that's the only good anyway. if we if and when we transition to actually being a video podcast as well, or in addition to the audio or whatever, you know, maybe, you know, we could have Courtney just like right out there, people could see her.

And then you and I could be like those old school Frosted Flakes commercials where it's like dark and there's like the blur effect. Maybe something like that. don't know. Probably ideal, which by the way, we're recording this episode, but it will be one of the first episodes of 2025 when this is actually released. So there's half a chance that I get the YouTube channel up by then, but let's not be crazy. Ted was volunteered to be the mascot. Ted.

Is the mascot perfect well let's dive in because we've got a guest today and I've been I just I finished reading this book and I was so excited that I got to have a conversation with him. We have with us Daniel. I'm going to say his last name and I'm going to do my best to not screw it up because he just told me how to say it. But Daniel, Jurassic Jurassic Jurassic Jurassic Jurassic. OK, you know what? We don't edit this. We just go straight through. So I'm just an idiot and everybody knows it. Jurassic Daniel Jurassic.

Jason Allison (02:23.182)
He is the founder and the CEO of United in Crisis, which is also the name of the book that he just released. It is a training organization focused on uniting and equipping churches from around the globe to form local crisis response church networks, which is a lot of words to say he gets a bunch of churches together to take care of stuff and they do a great job of doing it. There's a whole bunch of other stuff that you can read about him if you go to their website.

and so forth, and we'll list all of that fun stuff in the show notes. But Daniel, hey, thanks for being part of this, man. We look forward to our conversation. Welcome to the Church Talk podcast. Well, thank you. Thank you for having me on today. Looking forward to getting to talk with all of you. Yeah. Well, maybe just to kick it off, why don't you just tell us a little bit about your story, how you became even just a follower of Jesus and then how that

you know, led to doing all that you do now. Yeah, well, born and raised in the Catholic Church was basically invited to be a Christian without really knowing Jesus at the time, growing up through that era and falling away from the church until probably my late 20s when the Lord began to really touch my heart. I picked up a Bible, it came alive.

I I never had read the Bible like the way that it was coming alive to me. So it was impacting me. And then I ended up going back to a Catholic church and becoming on FireRite. I did everything that I could to be part of that church outreach. And the church I attended was actually more of a charismatic Catholic church, believe it or not.

And it was at this time that I really began to encounter God and surrender my life to Jesus. But in the midst of that, one of the lay leaders of that church was called by God to put on an event at our large arena in Austin, Texas, called Frank Irwin Center. It held over 17,000 people to have an event at the beginning of the millennial. And so the year 2000, so was right before that.

Jason Allison (04:44.504)
just late December. And we put on that event. That was kind of my introduction to Christianity, began to work with churches all throughout the city. And that's kind of what birthed in my heart, this heart for the church being united. Now, right after that event, the Lord used me to begin leading a prayer movement in the city, still attending the Catholic church. And then ultimately the Lord had me attend a non-denominational church.

but used me to really confront some of the issues between some of the denominations in the Catholic Church. And that was kind of a neat season because through all of that, I got to learn the ins and outs of a lot of denominations. The citywide prayer movement that we held ended up being in almost every type of church in our city. It went from Baptist to Catholic to United Methodist to, you know, each month we'd have these big, large

prayer meetings, praying for the transformation of Austin, uniting the saints together, working together. So that was kind of really the Lord setting me up, setting the stage for what later would be launched a Christ Sponsored Church Network in the greater Austin area. That's so good. Daniel, and this isn't like the purpose of our conversation, but I love even just in you sharing your story, you know,

Myself and Jason and Courtney were very ecumenical in nature and just appreciate you know the good work that God is doing in every corner of the church and And you know like well we have our own preferences and leanings and in different things You know that does not you know from our vantage point mean that we think what like what we'd like or what we do is better You know God God uses all for different people and I've long had a frustration

You know when Protestants kind of view those Catholics as not even Christian so I love you know that just being part of your story and and that people can hear hey, here's a here's a guy that's that's Catholic or at least has Catholic is a significant part of his story who loves Jesus and wants to Impact the world for the kingdom of God. So that's just that's really good. Hey, so tell us You know for our listeners, what is the crisis response church network model like?

Jason Allison (07:05.11)
And I love this, right? Because a lot of times everybody should work together, but a lot of times they don't until something big happens. And then there's like a need that forces us to do that. Well, there, thank you for asking. There are five key areas that really make up the model. Now imagine each of these areas being a stick that goes into what we're going to build as a bonfire for the Lord to just pour out his, his, his spirit upon right and bless. Right? So number one,

is the number one model point is that Isaiah 56, seven says that my house should be called a house of prayer. You cannot launch a Christ response church network in any city without a United Prayer effort behind it. Devil won't be sitting around cheering you on along with just opening pathways for you to start uniting his body of Christ together when he wants it divided.

He surely doesn't like us praying together and he doesn't want all the other points I'm about to describe to you. But you see when we begin to just simply agree with what the Lord wants, which he wants his team not only to be united but to pray. But the second point is John 17, 21, where the Lord calls for his church to be united as one. That the whole world may know that he was sent by the Father, right?

And so that is a key point. We build a church network, a network of churches to begin working together all in the name of Christ's response. The third point is that we believe that the body of Christ needs to be equipped for the work of the ministry. So Ephesians 4.11-13, you know, I love spontaneous volunteers, but man, when they are trained, you know, with Christ in them, they become an outstanding volunteer in Christ's response. really...

Do need some training. There's surely some duties that don't need training, but the majority of them do. The fourth point is the Good Samaritan in Luke 10, 25 through 37, where we want, we're calling the church to begin walking with survivors impacted by crisis, which is really one of the ultimate goals is not just give stuff away, not just muck out homes, but yet.

Jason Allison (09:23.83)
walk with families until they're actually back on their feet in a safe and clean home. And that's really where we see the multitudes come into the kingdom at that point, because we say, would you like a church to walk with you through this process? And we train those, those, what we call shepherds to be able to walk with them. So average lay people that are in the pews can be trained and equipped in a way to walk with those survivors.

So that way, ultimately they're revealing the goodness of God to those people that were impacted by crisis. And the last point is Matthew, you know, 28, 19 through 20 is the gospel must be preached and disciples made. And so we think if you can imagine each of these being part of the bonfire, now the Lord's saying, all right, I like this plan. You're hitting all the key points that I love now.

If we just create an atmosphere where he shows up, then it begins taking a terrible situation. And when God shows up, mean, suddenly the church like that will start looking like they know what they're doing, because that's what the Lord does. He makes the church look like what we know we're doing, because when he begins to come in, suddenly all these things begin to happen that are just miraculous. And that's really what the book is about is the miraculous stories of his work.

through his church, ultimately to draw people into the kingdom. So there you have it. Yeah, that's such a great vision that you have and that you help like regional areas come together to bridge these denominational divides. Like I grew up on the Alabama Gulf Coast. So I'm very familiar with crisis response with hurricanes either that hit us directly or hit Florida or Mississippi or Louisiana and then us.

kind of going and being the ones to help in those situations. And it is always a really just unique blessing from the Lord to see people step up. Like you said, it's kind of like this deep programming within us that like we don't need it all the time, but whenever it happens, it's just this amazing outpouring of grace and mercy and love. And you get to see the church being the church in this way that's just very unique even in the midst of disaster, right? So I want...

Jason Allison (11:46.826)
I would like, I've seen it kind of in action across denominational divides, but I want to know how you, an expert in the field, help churches set aside those theological or denominational divides to begin building this regional response network. It's interesting. We'll look at two ways. One, we can look at Asheville, North Carolina, which we're out there right now working with churches. And in that particular scenario,

You know, there's really no time to think about the theological differences because it's so overwhelming that, you know, the idea of we can't do this alone. We need to do this together because disasters are no longer these small events. They're bigger than one city, bigger than one church, bigger than one denomination or organization, bigger than a government. And it takes the whole church to come together to be able to meet the emotional, physical, spiritual needs, especially when there these

catastrophic size disasters, which are no longer just happening, you know, one or two here and there. Here's a real stat. The frequency of billion dollar disasters in America used to only, used to happen every 80 to 120 days. Now it's between 16 and 20 days, a billion dollar disasters happening. One more stat, and this is another reason why we just don't have the,

I don't know if it's just people don't care anymore about that when it comes to crisis response, but there was last year, $28 billion disasters in America. If you look at the whole decade of the 1980s, between 1980 and end of the eighties, right? There was a total of $29 billion disasters in 10 years, and yet we're having 28 now on average per year. This year we could actually

end up hitting 30 at the pace that we're going. So it's just on a skyrocket increase. So believe it or not, the cities that we've helped launch where there wasn't a disaster in place, the pastors just seemed to like the idea of having something that they got, they get to do together. And yeah, is there probably something going on in the back of their minds? I am sure there's probably something going on, but

Jason Allison (14:07.65)
The cool thing is that everyone's wearing one shirt and it's one color, whatever color they decide to pick. So it's one voice, one church, one mission, one purpose. And we're no longer asking those questions once that shirt's on because technically I don't even know what church you belong to and probably I don't care. Yeah, I will say this in Austin where we launched the Austin Disaster Relief Network which was the first church network that we...

we launched. And I think the first in the nation in regards to crisis response church network, according to a lot of the big organizations that we work with that have been out there doing this for a long time, pastors were already meeting together in what they call pastors and covenant groups, highly recommended for any city where pastors of all denominations form maybe a group of eight to 10 could be

If it's men, there would be men pastors. Of women pastors be with women pastors. But where they would begin to just simply share their life's challenges together. Because as you know, a pastor is unable to just be on the pulpit and share everything out there going on in the marriage. So they have like-minded men and women, but they might be of United Methodists or another Baptist or Nanda Namasha or Pentecostal.

But the rules in this group is that you can't share theological differences and you cannot talk politics. So that way it's just simply, I want to know about you and your life. How can I pray for you? And what happened over years of that is these pastors start loving each other so much. He started going, I don't care what you are. And they ended up starting to swap pulpits. And it just got really crazy like that and kind of what the Lord wants it to be.

And that probably set the stage and made it a little bit easier for Austin, Texas to help launch that church network. So there you have it. Mixture some ideas there. Daniel, I'm curious. Do you have any thoughts as to why in the 80s we had 29 of these billion dollar crises happen in our country and this year we've had 28 and maybe more? why the increases? Thoughts you have there?

Jason Allison (16:29.74)
Yeah, I know that obviously there's a global warming trend of information going out there. You know, I've looked at the 30s. That was actually one of the worst and hottest years ever. And just all through time, there's these surges and then they die out. I don't know if we're in one of those things, but I do know this that, you know, there's a lot in the church that I talked to pastorally that believe that we're getting closer to the Lord's return as we get closer.

that more events are supposed to increase. And I think that's probably the most common answer I hear that pastors obviously looking at Jerusalem as one of the time tables, right? For Israel to be a nation again was a key. And then obviously Jerusalem being also now under the leadership of Israel that had to happen, that happened in 1967. those two, 1948 and 67, there's a lot of people looking at

the 80 year mark from 1948 or 1967, 80 years, they don't know which one was maybe the launch, but they think that that generation will see everything, either the 80 year generation from one of those dates. And so they look at all the disasters that are happening, the crisis and the rumors of wars. I think that is probably the biggest conversation I hear.

around that and the reason why we're seeing the increase of crisis. Yeah. Yeah, you know, there's some. So I've been, said we were highly ecumenical and I know I moved to where I live just just north of Columbus, Ohio in a little town called Delaware, Ohio, which confuses everyone because they think it's the state, but it's just this little town. And, know, we had a ministerium.

is what they called it, where all the pastors would get together once a month. And it was fine, and we had some good times. I've got a group of three or four guys in the town, in the area, that we get together every week. And we do life together. And it kind of starts off like a bad joke. But United Methodist, the Southern Baptist, and Anandanam got together for, that's how.

Jason Allison (18:48.524)
But having that, and that's been a theme even in this podcast that we have said over and over and over is pastors need friends. They need to have those connections where they can share beyond the surface level stuff, the stuff you don't want to tell your board because you're afraid they'll fire you. You need someone that you can talk to. from what I can tell in reading the book and talking with you,

That's a great starting point. Like having those relationships is really important if it's gonna translate into crisis response. And yet the reverse is also true at times where the crisis is what will often bring the pastors together because they have to set aside everything just to make sure there's drinkable water and stuff like that. I'm just curious as you've worked with these groups, have you seen

those differences cause, you know, become an obstacle or maybe you've seen some really cool moments where the obstacles dissolved and you saw the gospel really take root. Yeah, I think it was the latter, the obstacles dissolve and the gospel take root. Because if you look at our logo on the book there, you know, it's all these colorful arrows pointing to the cross. And that's at the end of the day, it's the cross of

Christ that that silences everything else. If we could just, you know, unite behind the cross and for the sake of the cross and what he did for those people. And there's some, you know, just I think we also get to see the beauty of every one of these denominations when we get to work together. So, yeah, there might be some differences, one here, one there, one there, but there's so many things that we're united on.

And I think in a time of crisis, it's almost like winning a Super Bowl. When I see the churches unite like that, work together, not just independently, because right now, like in Asheville, the church has done an amazing job, but they're just not working together. That's a difference between a network and doing an amazing job, but independently.

Jason Allison (21:07.854)
they're going to come against the wall here soon where you've got the whole long-term rebuild where you have to work together to be able to rebuild 9,000 homes, you know, and handle that many thousands of families. but it's when I'm going back to the analogy of the Super Bowl, but when you do work together, I'm going to use a story in the Hill Country of Texas where churches decided to work together for the first time in a midst of a crisis.

They did so well. They started enjoying each other so much. And rather than the independent silo work that they were originally doing and then United seeing how much more that they could do together, it felt like they won the Super Bowl. Like, because people were coming into the kingdom left and right. They're seeing increase in their churches because they were shepherding families, which you cannot shepherd thousands of families or hundreds of families when you're

you have to do it together because there's really no way to take on that level of cases, right? Independently. But when they, at the end of the day, when all the homes rebuilt and they were celebrating what God had done through them because they also got to see the fullness of Psalm 133 where it says it commands a blessing when brethren dwell together in unity. So they also saw a new level of God that they had not experienced of God

you know, miraculously suddenly showing up right when they were crying out for funding, someone just out of the blue hears about them and gives them a million dollars or maybe it was a, you know, someone that wasn't a believer, a big donor in the city, but just because of the work of the church, because that was the other thing that they began to see things that would not happen as an independent church, but because it was a United church, it was stirring the

community up in a way where they're like, my gosh, we're becoming a city on a hill, so to speak. We're becoming a bright light and becoming relevant, not as one church, but as the church in the community and causing others like the mayor of this community said, you all have done such an amazing job. We have decided to give you a hundred acres. Can you help with the homeless crisis in our city? And they had several buildings on.

Jason Allison (23:32.834)
this hundred acres. The next thing you know, they had an apartment complex that they gave them and they ended up taking on several other forms of crisis in the city. You can't stop these guys. Now they're trying to get 200 acres where they're going to rebuild these tiny homes or they're going to put the homeless population and single moms and widows. I mean, it's crazy what's going on in the hill country of central Texas. So.

So yeah, I can't even imagine them thinking about going back to the life as it was, which was working independently. So good. Daniel, I live in a little town in the middle of nowhere in Ohio, but there's a lot of little churches in my town. And one of the things that I've loved to say over the 13 and a half years I've been here is I ask people,

Hey, do you know how many churches there are kind of in our town and just on the outskirts? And the people start trying to do the math. so what I say is, there's just one church. Now there's different expressions of that, that, you know, have different worship styles and preferences and meeting different facilities and whatever, but there's one church, you know? And so we see biblically unity is unbelievably important, you know, to the heart of God. He wants his people to work together and to be on the same team.

regardless of some of those other things. But what have you noticed that's unique about a crisis that really does help foster that unity and togetherness? I think one of the unique things of a crisis is usually the overwhelming nature, obviously, of a crisis where people that were never

would never even knock on a church door suddenly in an absolute place of desperation. And I think it's at this place where they're in a crisis. And really, have, at least it's my opinion that the goodness of God is on crisis. So his goodness and those people's minds that don't know him are hearing the devil whisper, you know, if there was truly a loving God, why would he allow this to happen to you?

Jason Allison (25:52.34)
And then you have insurance company come in and says, this is an act of God. And so everything is coming against God. if in and I think they see that opportunity, but yet it's so enormous that they they don't know where to start because there's no organization in charge. So when a disaster that magnitude happens, your community, a you've got members in your own church probably impacted. B, you got your.

meant people outside of your committee that you normally were knocking on doors and trying to outreach to that are really hurting. It's that unique scenario where it almost forces the church to kind of in some ways, A, there's a lot of people sleeping. I think we're in a Laocian age in America. We've been so blessed. There's a lot of folks, not everyone, that are kind of, you know.

blessed by the blessings and receiving those blessings, but it may not be the kind of church that God intended the church to be originally. I think the government has become the good Samaritan of our community. And the church today is really more like the Levine and priests because the government has really become the go-to for food stamps, for the poor, for all kinds of emotional care, too.

fact it's now professional, have to have degrees to do it and you have to, and if you look back in the 1800s, which we mentioned this in the book, it wasn't that way. The church did everything back in those days from universities, know, schools, orphanages, the poor, I mean, every program, even golf courses, and they did everything. In fact, you needed Sunday off to take a break from the work that the church did in the community.

And none of us here today even have a grandparent that lived in those days. So we don't even have a context of what life was like. And we've really fallen away to where the church used to be the Good Samaritan of the community. And today, unfortunately, the government, little by little, has come in. This isn't a knock on the government. We really kind of allowed it also to happen. So I think going back to your question, you know,

Jason Allison (28:08.438)
This is, I think people when they begin to step into a crisis, it actually feels good. It's a terrible scenario, but it feels good to be used by God. And you're kind of, it's so in your face, you feel bad if you don't get out something. But finally, this is an opportunity. And that's the beauty part about a network is that the network is working behind the scenes as the great admin, the people that actually

forming the network. So that way it gives a platform for the church to rise and be the hero. So we're doing the work for you. So all you need to do is get the shirt on, get trained and go. But we did all the work to get you there. So churches love that because they don't know what to do and how to do that. But yet a network that's in place with the right teams and leadership and all that sets the stage. So that way the church looks good.

The city's going to love it because the church looks good. It's going to make them look good. And now it's becoming like this perfect. It's exactly what was intended for it to be all from since the beginning is that the church becomes one of the greatest assets in the, in that city's, you know, tools when crisis strikes that they can use and depend on, lean on and trust in. And next thing you know, the church being invited to all the planning meetings, all the

you know, with the police chief, fire chief and all the others, they're just as key as an important part of that community as any other part. So there you go. Kind of a long answer. It's a hard one to give you a short answer on, but anyway. that's so good. I don't mean to dominate questions. I don't want to know. I'm not asking another question, Jason or Courtney, but I do want to comment because as you were talking, man, I was thinking of all the clips that I saw.

Daniel, you know, kind of around the this, this recent election, you know, where people, Christians, conservatives were, were really kind of deriding the current administration for the ability to send billions of dollars overseas, but then not have enough money to help people, you know, with some of the disasters hitting our country. And again, I'm not trying to make a political comment or point here, but I think sometimes when God's people

Jason Allison (30:28.684)
love to point that stuff out and complain about it. You know, it's so much better when we as God's people instead say, what can I do to help and be a part of the solution? You know, and I think, you know, that's what God wants us to do. In some way, I actually love the fact that the government is being seen as they don't have all the answers. They play a in a community, right? But when they begin to take on our role,

You know, like in the city of Austin, they wanted to take on the homeless population issue. Austin had a 6,000 plus homeless crisis, right? The city started doing what they thought was best. It became an absolute disaster. I mean, a big time disaster. But then they ended up fortunately finding behind a large, great organization in Austin that built over a thousand tiny homes. And it's one of the greatest places to go called Community First.

It's a village of what used to be homeless people, chronically homeless over 10 years, that are now operated by the church. These people have jobs, they're working, they've got their own tiny home. This thing is never ending. So the city, city of Austin, which is second most liberal city in the nation, funded over $47 million into the church as the answer behind that effort. that's our hope is that's a perfect relationship.

between government and church if we are allowed to do what we're called to do, but it's gonna take a church and some leaders to say, you know what? We need to lead this effort in our community together, united. Yeah, and you're so right. Like so often the government has, you know, just one way that they know how to do things and they're set up to do it in a certain way with their administration. But whenever it comes in, it's really good in that immediate relief, getting things back online, electricity.

all those things that you desperately need water, but a lot of times those solutions are very particular to the local community and only people from within that community know what solutions will work. And if the government's coming from outside, they've got a cookie cutter solution that should work everywhere, right? But it might not work. then, like you said, the long-term rebuilding projects on some of these disasters is generational. It's not, you know,

Jason Allison (32:52.526)
It's not just what happens in the immediate weeks in the aftermath or even the first few months, but it's about what does it look like to rebuild a city that's no longer there? What does it look like to expand schools because the schools are no longer there. So now all of those children are now neighboring school districts and things like that. And that's dependent on the community to really step up and come up with those solutions in a way that works for them and the people who are invested in the long-term to seeing this place regain its

It's livelihood. Yeah, I 100 % agree with what you're saying, because if you think about the, you know, as the church is providing a solution, we always have the God, you know, you know, part of it, right? Because, you know, mankind plus God is a solution that no one else can match, right? So, you know, here's a for instance, the winter storm in 2021, the state of Texas, it's impacted by this.

catastrophic event where imagine greater Austin, 1.4 million people, no power, no water, two inches of ice on the roads. The fire engines gas is their diesels is thickened where their machines or their engines won't work. We're talking about three degrees outside, which is not normal for Austin, Texas, negative 20.

with the wind chill pipes bursting everywhere, elderly wet in their house. If they were to go outside the house, it's three degrees in the house, no heat. And it's getting cold, very cold. And this is life and death situation. Imagine the whole city impacted. 9.1 is getting so many calls. And the mayor says, we need your help. I'm in the Emergency Operations Center. It's the Austin Disaster Relief Network. We were given a seat there as the big seat church.

because the work that we had done. And this is the kind of favor, the commanded blessing that God opens doors for like Daniel with Nebuchadnezzar and the other stories, Joseph with Pharaoh. And so he says, can you raise up a brigade of four wheel drive trucks to go and pick up these people that desperately need to be rescued and brought into

Jason Allison (35:18.03)
shelters, warming shelters, where they actually had the heat going. And the Lord had blessed us within 12 hours, we had over 1000 four wheel drive vehicles. So see, this is the God story size. You know, again, this is where he makes you look like you know what you're doing. It's like, yeah, hey, we had this already sat down and we were ready to go. No, no, no. The truth is, we could not have done it without God. But suddenly now we're we didn't have a dispatch system either. Well,

A guy had got fired recently that was working on that with us where he suddenly said, I've got program experience. I can build a system overnight. I'll just stay up all night and build you a dispatch system. Suddenly we're like an Uber. mean, you know, the day before we never, you know, dispatch a single vehicle. The next day we're dispatching hundreds of vehicles, picking up people, dropping them off here, all this coordination of food being dropped off and et cetera. And

suddenly the Lord, you know, that made the city look really good in a very desperate situation. The church is like experiencing in this miracle. And we're like, I don't want to stop this. This is so fun to be the church in this place. So this is the kind of stuff. And then you've got a guy that's a billionaire, won't name a name, who lives in the city that gives us a lot of money. He was not a Christian who says, wow.

This is amazing what is going on here. Next, you know, more money is pouring in. Now we have the kind of funding we need to rebuild, repair homes. See, this is the kind of stuff that begins happening when the church begins to work together. Yeah, love that. Nothing like a local solution than trying to find a thousand four wheel drive trucks in Texas. Imagine making a call for that. Yeah.

Well, I love this too. mean, a lot of the work I do with churches, you know, they I come in and they want this like silver bullet that fixes everything kind of solution. And, you know, I tell them, listen, if you want to learn how to make disciples in your context, you got to figure out what making disciples in your context looks like. It's not, you know, this one thing that fits everything. And so when you come into a situation.

Jason Allison (37:35.906)
You know, I love how you say the people on the ground are the ones who know what needs to be done. They know how to interact and so forth. And so what I love about your organization is you don't have a one size fits all system that every city has to, you know, kind of form into get the church, get the churches together. And there's only one. No, no. You say I'm going to help you form a network. I'm going to give you some tools so that whatever disasters, whatever issues come up,

you're equipped to then respond on a local level. I think that's just brilliant. It's funny, I saw a stat last week that natural disasters and the type of things you're talking about, right? It showed a map of the United States and where these happen and the frequency. And there was like one little window right around Ohio and kind of Pennsylvania that experienced like zero.

of these type of natural disasters. Because I mean, we're right in middle of nowhere. So we don't have any oceans. We have no hurricanes. We get a tornado occasionally. But we don't get them like they do in Oklahoma, which is in your book. You talk about a couple of situations. I'm like, in my mind, I'm trying to think, how do I get a group here locally to form to be ready for a natural disaster when we don't really have any like this? But here's the thing that I thought of.

During COVID, of course, affected everybody, but some of the things that happened in COVID were some of the racial issues, right? That just caused unrest, it caused these things. And the people in our little town, the pastors who had been meeting, getting together, the chief of police called myself and one other pastor, an African American pastor in the town and said, hey, we've been meeting for the last five years over coffee and just getting to know each other. Now I need you.

Like I need to know what to do, how to respond. But it was because we, again, principle that you've laid out in your work, we established the relationships and we prepared for five years for something we didn't even know what was going to happen. But that's what I love about what you're doing. I'm just real curious as you're moving through this, what is the relationship as you are on the ground seeing this stuff? What's the relationship between meeting the needs of those who have been impacted by a crisis and

Jason Allison (40:00.738)
bringing the hope of the gospel. Those are two kind of separate but also connected things, and I know from what you wrote about, there's been some tension a couple of times with that. What's that relationship look like in real time? Yeah, so the number one goal is obviously that the gospel go forth, because the worst disaster of all is that someone is completely

put back together, but yet their internal house is on fire. And that is really the worst disaster of all. And so we see that, we know that, we think about that. So that's why we have different phases of the crisis response that are available to a survivor. like, the best way to describe it is like a restaurant, you go to a restaurant, someone greets you when you first walk in, then the hostess takes you to the table and then you're greeted by the...

the waiter. Then after that, the manager comes by me, you got the food, how's it? It tastes good, right? And then you leave it and these people are like really caring about me. You leave, they're all waving at you. There is an intentionality all around that to wow you. Well, it's the same thing with this disaster Christ response church network, which doesn't have to be just built around a disaster for small towns. The Hill Country Bible.

the Hill Country scenario I gave you, that's a small town, 40 churches on that network. But see, that crisis had a disaster, but they're now having many disasters of the community, homelessness and other forms of crisis. So the network works great in all forms of crisis, the way it's structured and the training is provided. But going back to your answer there,

So the first call may be in our hotline call center that we normally ask the network to have, because it has to have like 911 has a call center, right? The church itself needs a call center. So it's the first touch point, prayer point, right? Loving on. The next one will be the actual, what we call emotional care because they've been traumatized. And so we begin to take in their information, ask them questions, pull them out of the trauma up at the end, pray with them, ask them if they want a Bible.

Jason Allison (42:17.922)
but you're kind of feeling all through the process whether the timing of presenting the gospel is right. Normally it's not right in the very first week because of the overwhelmingly of losing everything and all you want is just to get back on your feet. You want food, water, clothing, shelter, you know? And unfortunately that's where the church makes the biggest mistake is they feel like because of lack of training they need to share the gospel and they share it.

while the person standing in the rubble and they don't even know where they're going to put on the next piece of clothing or eat the next piece of bread. And yet they're told they're going to go to hell unless they accept Jesus Christ. Because I've had so many calls into the state of Texas thinking it was our network of our volunteers that someone had just done that to 72 year old woman that was a widow and told she was going to hell while she was standing in her

Unfortunately, it wasn't us, but the church is seen as the second disaster in a time of disaster, the reality of it. So ultimately in that circle of care, knowing that that's in place, there's no pressure to say, better do it now because I won't. But it's only in the times when we give stuff away and all we're going to do is clean up their home, we feel pressure to do it then. But when it's a system like this in place where it's organized,

So maybe it's at the warehouse where they get stuff, or maybe it's the biggest place, it's the shepherding of families, where we ask that family, can we walk with you through this crisis, and assign a trained volunteer to them to become a friend, just like the Good Samaritan story. So that way you're befriending them, their minds aren't sharp and clear, because they're overwhelmed. Yours is, you're going to help them come up with a plan that will...

not enable them where you're doing everything for them, but you're going to help them do the stuff, help them buy the new car, help them get their driver's license and all the things that people lose in a time of crisis. But they're going, why are you doing this for me? And it's a good question. They're not saying it in a bad way. They're going, I don't understand this level of love. And ultimately, that's when

Jason Allison (44:37.07)
their heart begins to melt and they want to know about Christ and the peace that you have, or you can bring them and have them meet your pastor. Sometimes people are a little nervous to share the gospel, so they bring them to church, but we do provide training for those volunteers also, so that way they can overcome some of those fears. But ultimately, it's in the shepherding place. If we don't get them there, the rebuilding of their home, I've seen some of the absolute hardest of hardest of hardest hearts. By the time their house is rebuilt, they're melting.

their hearts falling apart going, you know, just like I have to know this Jesus that, you know, it's driving you to rebuild my house, but, that, that is usually the final stage of that whole process. If the house has to be rebuilt and repaired. So, Daniel, as, we land the plane today and we did again, really appreciate, know, your time, your work, your insight, you know, just as you were talking there, I mean, as a pastor,

I'm listening to that story and I'm like, what a perfect way, right? To, love people, to meet their felt needs. And then for that to open their heart to the gospel and then to, to point them to Jesus, you know, as pastors are listening to this podcast episode, think pretty much all of them are thinking, wow, I want to interact with my community. I want to make a positive difference in my community. And certainly I want people

to Jesus and change their lives, just now, but for eternity. just kind of a question, what do you believe is the greatest opportunity for the global church to impact their local communities for Christ? I really truly believe it's forming these crisis response networks to be the good Samaritan, whether it's, you know, I don't have disaster scenario in, but we have other crisis, right? Cause there's crisis everywhere.

It's just the church needs to make it known that they're going to be now the answer for crisis. And it won't actually challenge the government. You'll find that the government will say behind the scenes, hallelujah, because they realize like in Texas, the government's giving up the whole fostering system and giving it over to the nonprofits because they're not doing well. it's 60 % handed over and the more is going to be handed over over the years.

Jason Allison (47:01.39)
But I think more and more of that's going to begin happening. We have programs that we can give the church, the training, the equipping, the systems. You know, why it doesn't work right now currently in the church is that you need an infrastructure within the church infrastructure that we train and raise up a core team that will be focused on crisis. So that way it doesn't overwhelm the staff. Cause right now pastors are going, all I need is one more thing added to my plate.

Well, the good news is this, it's actually going to not add anything on if you're playing fact. A real true Christ networks going to not only train, equip and raise up that team that will carry that, but also money will be raised from the nonprofit given to the church to actually do this. So actually get money, get training. It's not pulling people away from the church actually feeds in the church. And at the end of the day, the nonprofit that rate is raised up. The number one goal is not to

be the one lifted up, but every time an interview happens, it's no, it's the church of your city that's doing this. It's not us, it's them. It's to help the church become the hero in the eyes of the community. And that's where it really then begins stirring the government up. So the government's gonna now say, wow, can you partner with us? This is exactly what needs to happen. And it can only happen if the church unites.

I don't think the mayor is going to come to a church and say, you take on the whole homeless crisis in our city? It's too over daunting, right? For that one church, no matter how big they are. So see, that's why it I think this is my opinion, you know, is a Christ-sponsored church network in every city. A train network would really create an atmosphere for God to do some things that that church community has never seen before. And it will.

ultimately cause the church to be the light in that community and hopefully drawing multitudes of people watching the news constantly of what the church is doing in their community, drawing them into the kingdom. Yeah, I love that. I've got like 15 more questions in my mind that I want to dive in. Like in your book, you talk about Galatians 6 and bearing one another's burdens, but each person carrying their own load.

Jason Allison (49:19.086)
and the differentiation there. And I feel like that's something pastors need to meditate on and think about, because we all have that guilt of we need to fix everything, but we can't. You talk about caring for the volunteers as well as the victims. And that to me, churches, I don't care if you're in crisis response or not, churches need to learn how to care for the volunteers, because they use and abuse them to grow something.

and they have as many casualties in that. So I've got a ton of things I'd love to talk to you about, but we're running out of time. So how about we just do this? Yeah, know. Let's really quickly, like if somebody wants to reach out and find out more, maybe give them some of that information real quick so they have it. And of course, we'll list some of the stuff in the show notes as well. Yeah. Yeah. So simply if you're a pastor out there going, wow, this is something we might have interest in.

We'd be happy to talk to a group of pastors in your community about it. Simply just go to our website at unitedincrisis.org and then you'll see a 90 day meeting, a 90 minute meeting, a little form that you can fill out and we'll reach back out to you to talk to you about what that could look like. And if it begins to unfold, I'll be happy to fly out, meet with the pastors in that community and begin casting vision.

First step will be finding someone that will ultimately lead that network. But the good news is this, the church is the one that's in charge of it. I mean, it's the church. Without the church, there's no such existing. So it's not like you're building an entity that goes outside the church. It's all through the church, for the church, and is the church. So we'd be happy to do that. And then you can also, I'd encourage you to buy the book.

Because the book is going to give you not to sell a book. The book was written purely, mostly for pastors to see the God stories of really what can happen to your community. And it's not just about what happened in Austin. actually share stories from several of the other church networks that we have launched. We've helped launch now with the latest to 26 either trained or launched church networks.

Jason Allison (51:27.86)
and for communities in the United States and now one in South Africa that's just exploding. it actually is, doesn't matter where it's at, God's same plan that worked in Austin is working as effective in South Africa right now where they're just, it's so beautiful. If you look at United in Crisis, South Africa, just see kind of what's going on there. It's impressive. And these are all nonprofits on their own. We're not running those nonprofits. They're just.

We allow them to use the name United in Crisis, Denver, United in Crisis, whatever city it is. Think about it as one last thing here. Think about it as this. It's kind of like an all one-stop training. Like if you were to become an entrepreneur for McDonald's, you go to Berger University, they give you everything you needed to launch a McDonald's. We do the same. We have all the documents. I mean, we can help grow an organization from what took us years to overnight with a community anywhere.

in the nation or in the world, just like what we're experiencing even in South Africa. Wow. I love it. Thank you so much for your time, for writing this. I'm not going to lie, I was reading it and there were a couple times that I felt my eyes start to well up with tears. so I just put it down to like, nope, I'm not going to read anymore for a little bit. I don't want to get that emotionally connected.

But it was, I mean, it was just really good. And I appreciate that. And of course, we're going to put links in the the show notes about how they can buy the book, how they can visit the website. Because, you know, we have pastors all over the country that that I think would benefit tremendously from reaching out and finding this out. So thank you, Rob and Courtney, always great hanging out with you and talking, talking church. It's always fun. And to all our listeners, thank you so much.

for taking the time to listen, for being part of our community, our network of the Church Talk podcast. And we encourage you to reach out, let us know, take a moment and share this podcast with some other pastors that you think would benefit and leave us a review. We appreciate you and we will see you next week. Have a great week.